Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 
15358 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2984
Inactive user


  Reply # 2193541 8-Mar-2019 12:55
Send private message quote this post

GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

Its an interesting one. 

 

I feel we should tax everything on realisation. We do that for salary and wages, we do that for business income. We can't do that for CGT as we cannot spend paper gains. (Although we could by borrowing against them, thats a problem) Kiwisaver investment earnings is actually not one or the other. The earnings of interest are realised, but as the person has the funds locked up, they aren't realised. CGT  is unrealised as that is locked away.

 

But, Cullen stated that there are a number of measures that nullify the KS CGT? Not for everyone or for every $ but thats the premise of it.

 

It would be far easier to exclude KS investments from CGT, as the end result was planned that these gains would be offset and KS would not be affected. So exclude it so its not affected. 

 

 

I would have thought so too. Instead we've got some extremely weird arrangement where the majority of benefits flow through to people who will be earning less than a 40 hour week and more burden on those earning 70K+. At some point it just becomes change for the sake of change instead of rewarding those legitimately struggling to get ahead. 

 

However I would guess that there is a revenue component to this; the fact the Govt gets to tax gains as they accrue means they have money coming in year on year. It's the only reason I can think of that they'd bother with the political risk of taking such an aggressive approach to Kiwisaver. 

 

 

 

 

A minor correction :-) You refer to what I bolded, but its actually the TWG. The Govt has been extremely mum on this, not a peep. All we have seen is National bagging it, which is fine, and Cullen saying no thats not right. Right now, the Govt has stated zero in what it will be.

 

My feeling is this. The Govt says it will be tax neutral, so its a redistribution of wealth. To make the rich pay some more, and help the lower income. 70k is not rich. Plus the TWG plan is too complex. I feel the Govt will exclude Kiwisaver, and the rest will be milder in parts. Simpler. They can't take the political risk that it will be fairer, unless it is in fact fairer. I dont feel it will be 85% of the TWG plan, more like 45%

 

 


815 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 367


  Reply # 2193586 8-Mar-2019 13:33
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

 

A minor correction :-) You refer to what I bolded, but its actually the TWG. The Govt has been extremely mum on this, not a peep. All we have seen is National bagging it, which is fine, and Cullen saying no thats not right. Right now, the Govt has stated zero in what it will be.

 

My feeling is this. The Govt says it will be tax neutral, so its a redistribution of wealth. To make the rich pay some more, and help the lower income. 70k is not rich. Plus the TWG plan is too complex. I feel the Govt will exclude Kiwisaver, and the rest will be milder in parts. Simpler. They can't take the political risk that it will be fairer, unless it is in fact fairer. I dont feel it will be 85% of the TWG plan, more like 45%

 

 

The Govt is still the one doing the taxing ;)

 

Funny you mention 45%; the Minority Report suggests almost this much of the total revenue in the TWG report could be clawed back by just extending the Brightline to 10 years. 


 
 
 
 


15358 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2984
Inactive user


  Reply # 2193599 8-Mar-2019 14:01
Send private message quote this post

GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

A minor correction :-) You refer to what I bolded, but its actually the TWG. The Govt has been extremely mum on this, not a peep. All we have seen is National bagging it, which is fine, and Cullen saying no thats not right. Right now, the Govt has stated zero in what it will be.

 

My feeling is this. The Govt says it will be tax neutral, so its a redistribution of wealth. To make the rich pay some more, and help the lower income. 70k is not rich. Plus the TWG plan is too complex. I feel the Govt will exclude Kiwisaver, and the rest will be milder in parts. Simpler. They can't take the political risk that it will be fairer, unless it is in fact fairer. I dont feel it will be 85% of the TWG plan, more like 45%

 

 

The Govt is still the one doing the taxing ;)

 

Funny you mention 45%; the Minority Report suggests almost this much of the total revenue in the TWG report could be clawed back by just extending the Brightline to 10 years. 

 

 

The 45 was just a number I chose, but I was thinking about Brightline to 10 years while typing. I think all the issues will end up being perhaps that or at least a just a very small number of relatively simple changes. Unsure why they will decide this though


815 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 367


  Reply # 2193895 8-Mar-2019 18:20
Send private message quote this post

Have you had a chance to read through that Herald piece, TD? 


15358 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2984
Inactive user


  Reply # 2194502 9-Mar-2019 14:30
Send private message quote this post

GV27:

 

Have you had a chance to read through that Herald piece, TD? 

 

 

Yes, makes sense. Taxing on realisation is better as the taxable earnings are being retained till its sold. The other factor is comparing an investment fund where you invest your money, and an investment property where you invest your money and get the use of 4X that of other money. Leverage works well. 


815 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 367


  Reply # 2194924 10-Mar-2019 09:39
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

 

GV27:

 

Have you had a chance to read through that Herald piece, TD? 

 

 

Yes, makes sense. Taxing on realisation is better as the taxable earnings are being retained till its sold. The other factor is comparing an investment fund where you invest your money, and an investment property where you invest your money and get the use of 4X that of other money. Leverage works well. 

 

 

I mean I broadly agree, but the article explicitly says rental property income is undertaxed because mortgage interest gets offset against it. That's not right by any stretch; You can make a strong argument that you should be denied a deduction for mortgage interest against rental property (in fact I'd rather do that and shift the low value asset threshold to at least $1K instead of $500 to encourage owners to do more work on their properties) but you can't say claiming a legitimate deduction for financing costs makes something 'undertaxed'.

 

Otherwise you're effectively arguing that taxes have to be on revenue to be fair, and the idea that it is 'undertaxed' is a bit naff given that the finance costs of literally any business asset are deductible, be they a house, machinery, computers, whatever. 

 

This is one of the frustrating things about this whole debate; there's very strict rules about accountants staying in their lanes when it comes to giving financial advice, but anyone can have opinions about tax and conflate concepts like 'revenue' and 'profit' without any consequences at all. These words mean specific things and aren't interchangeable. 


1 | ... | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic


Donate via Givealittle


Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Amazon introduces new Kindle with adjustable front light
Posted 21-Mar-2019 20:14


A call from the companies providing internet access for the great majority of New Zealanders, to the companies with the greatest influence over social media content
Posted 19-Mar-2019 15:21


Two e-scooter companies selected for Wellington trial
Posted 15-Mar-2019 17:33


GeForce GTX 1660 available now
Posted 15-Mar-2019 08:47


Artificial Intelligence to double the rate of innovation in New Zealand by 2021
Posted 13-Mar-2019 14:47


LG demonstrates smart home concepts at LG InnoFest
Posted 13-Mar-2019 14:45


New Zealanders buying more expensive smartphones
Posted 11-Mar-2019 09:52


2degrees Offers Amazon Prime Video to Broadband Customers
Posted 8-Mar-2019 14:10


D-Link ANZ launches D-Fend AC2600 Wi-Fi Router Protected by McAfee
Posted 7-Mar-2019 11:09


Slingshot commissions celebrities to design new modems
Posted 5-Mar-2019 08:58


Symantec Annual Threat Report reveals more ambitious, destructive and stealthy attacks
Posted 28-Feb-2019 10:14


FUJIFILM launches high performing X-T30
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:40


Netflix is killing content piracy says research
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:33


Trend Micro finds shifting threats require kiwis to rethink security priorities
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:27


Mainfreight uses Spark IoT Asset Tracking service
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:25



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.