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507 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 2202215 20-Mar-2019 08:53
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I might not be too clever, but I don't get the cartoon. "The Invader" is the mouth of NZ, and the rest of NZ is behind it?

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  # 2202217 20-Mar-2019 09:00
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Ge0rge: I might not be too clever, but I don't get the cartoon. "The Invader" is the mouth of NZ, and the rest of NZ is behind it?

 

 

Point taken.  😐

 

It's a US cartoon.

 

I included it to point out that the Christchurch massacre was getting plenty of coverage in the USA.





Sideface


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Ultimate Geek

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  # 2202219 20-Mar-2019 09:03
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No no that's fine, wasn't trying to be a tool - I should have mentioned that the article was very positive. I was / still am just honestly baffled about what the artist was trying to portray there - nothing against you.

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  # 2202221 20-Mar-2019 09:08
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Kyanar:

 

BarTender:

 

But at least they took the content down albeit slowly. Certain Cloudflare hosted sites still have the video freely for download and celebrate having it while telling people to f..koff if requested to take it down.

 

Hence why those sites are very simplistically blocked via DNS.

 

 

Cloudflare themselves are no better.

 

 

This was my whole argument.

 

Cloudflare don't give a s..t about the fact they are earning money from protecting vile web sites. They only "seem" to appear to care about Child Porn but that seems under duress.

 

I think they are a terrible company with no ethics or morals and only care about the money they are earning from vile sites.

 

Yes I know Geekzone runs through Cloudflare and ultimately it's a moral and financial decision I am NOT going to pressure @freitasm to move Geekzone away from Cloudflare. Ultimately it is own decision on the ethics and morals of staying with them and I will support him with whatever decision he makes.






624 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2202228 20-Mar-2019 09:20
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BarTender:

 

Yes I know Geekzone runs through Cloudflare and ultimately it's a moral and financial decision I am NOT going to pressure @freitasm to move Geekzone away from Cloudflare. Ultimately it is own decision on the ethics and morals of staying with them and I will support him with whatever decision he makes.

 

 

 

 

You should win an award for that dancing manoeuvre 😀  Well done!


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  # 2202236 20-Mar-2019 09:34
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I'm somewhat concerned that almost all the focus seems to be on gun law reform and the video uploading and sharing aspects of social media. Very little is being said about how to change the political and social climate that fuels extremism.

 

Don't get me wrong, I support gun law reform and improved mechanisms to curb the sharing of objectionable material. However both of these are aimed at minimizing the damage that can be done after a person has already become radicalized, in and of themselves they are not a solution.

 

They are the "easy" things to do, and while they should be done I see a danger of people mistakenly thinking they are a solution. I see them as a (much needed) ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

 

Indeed, measures like this will actually be seen by hard right extremists as further justification for their beliefs.

 

By all means, treat the symptoms - but we mustn't lose sight of the much harder goals of curing and vaccinating against the disease.


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  # 2202238 20-Mar-2019 09:37
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I'm not trying to diminish Naeem Rashid accomplishment / mural

I'm a bit confused about where and how he "tried to wrestle gun from shooter before he was killed"

I thought no one even touched the shooter or his gun at the first Mosque, Masjid Al Noor.

Was it inside or outside the Mosque?

It is admiral to lunge at the shooter, when faced with overwhelming firepower, if that's what happened.

I hope I have the guts to lunge at a terrorist.

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  # 2202251 20-Mar-2019 09:54
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Paul1977:

 

I'm somewhat concerned that almost all the focus seems to be on gun law reform and the video uploading and sharing aspects of social media. Very little is being said about how to change the political and social climate that fuels extremism.

 

Don't get me wrong, I support gun law reform and improved mechanisms to curb the sharing of objectionable material. However both of these are aimed at minimizing the damage that can be done after a person has already become radicalized, in and of themselves they are not a solution.

 

They are the "easy" things to do, and while they should be done I see a danger of people mistakenly thinking they are a solution. I see them as a (much needed) ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

 

Indeed, measures like this will actually be seen by hard right extremists as further justification for their beliefs.

 

By all means, treat the symptoms - but we mustn't lose sight of the much harder goals of curing and vaccinating against the disease.

 

 

Agree. That has been raised but got over ridden by the other issues. I expect once the inquiry has completed, that there may be some transparency over what could have or should have been found, or not, whatever the case may be. Volume of data is one issue. And a greater awareness of everyone, public included, of exposing extremism. Exposing extremist behaviour in whatever form, needs to be standard practice. The easy options will change little, if anything


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  # 2202260 20-Mar-2019 10:03
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Perhaps an artist would be willing to do a mural of Farid Ahmad, who forgave the gunman who slaughtered his wife as he rampaged through two New Zealand mosques.

Gary Yourofsky said "The vicious cycle of violence is real.

But if people simply stopped listening to their ignorant parents, their biased religions, their corrupt government and the prejudicial media, change would be quite easy.

All it takes is courageous, fearless, unique individuals to make substantive change in this world.

Unfortunately, there are very few courageous and fearless people."

https://au.news.yahoo.com/husband-slain-woman-says-forgives-nz-mosque-gunman-062602255--spt.html



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  # 2202284 20-Mar-2019 10:37
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tdgeek:

 

Agree. That has been raised but got over ridden by the other issues. I expect once the inquiry has completed, that there may be some transparency over what could have or should have been found, or not, whatever the case may be. Volume of data is one issue. And a greater awareness of everyone, public included, of exposing extremism. Exposing extremist behaviour in whatever form, needs to be standard practice. The easy options will change little, if anything

 

 

Exposing it is one thing, but what can be done to prevent it in the first place?

 

The most important, but most difficult, part is to prevent people becoming extremist in the first place.


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  # 2202292 20-Mar-2019 10:47
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Paul1977:

 

tdgeek:

 

Agree. That has been raised but got over ridden by the other issues. I expect once the inquiry has completed, that there may be some transparency over what could have or should have been found, or not, whatever the case may be. Volume of data is one issue. And a greater awareness of everyone, public included, of exposing extremism. Exposing extremist behaviour in whatever form, needs to be standard practice. The easy options will change little, if anything

 

 

Exposing it is one thing, but what can be done to prevent it in the first place?

 

The most important, but most difficult, part is to prevent people people extremist in the first place.

 

 

I don't think you can ever remove bad sectors of society. The realistic goal would be to get early warning signs from these people and shut them down, intercept plans and stop those plans from being carried out. It can only really be cat and mouse, but if we can keep ahead, even a small amount that's a gain.  


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  # 2202297 20-Mar-2019 10:59
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tdgeek:

 

I don't think you can ever remove bad sectors of society. The realistic goal would be to get early warning signs from these people and shut them down, intercept plans and stop those plans from being carried out. It can only really be cat and mouse, but if we can keep ahead, even a small amount that's a gain.  

 

 

I only half agree.

 

Short, and even medium term, you are probably right. But I think we should have loftier goals for the long term.

 

It can't be credibly denied that extremism (particularly hard right) isn't on the increase worldwide. There will always be bad people no matter what you do, but I don't believe that it was inevitable that every extremist was going to turn out that way.

 

These are huge worldwide societal and political issues, and I don't have an answer.

 

EDIT: Typo


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  # 2202306 20-Mar-2019 11:12
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It's also not like there isn't plenty of examples that Cloudflare fundamentally don't care about any vile sites they protect unless law enforcement tells them they must and then only under duress. Free speech after all. 

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/cloudflare-cybersecurity-terrorist-groups_us_5c127778e4b0835fe3277f2f

 

https://www.techspot.com/news/77884-web-giant-cloudflare-reportedly-providing-service-seven-terrorist.html

 

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/12/19/cloudflare_terror_groups/






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  # 2202329 20-Mar-2019 11:45
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You know you've got a problem with White Supremacists when even the gangs are coming out and providing support.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12214449






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  # 2202369 20-Mar-2019 12:37
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Heard this mentioned by a religious scholar. Phinehas is considered as a hero by white supremacists.

As full disclosure, I am an atheist, and consider many story in the old testament as distasteful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phinehas

"According to the Hebrew Bible, Phinehas was a priest during the Israelites' Exodus journey ...

He was displeased with the immorality with which the Moabites and Midianites had successfully tempted the Israelites to inter-marry and to worship Baal-peor, so he personally executed an Israelite man and a Midianite woman while they were together in the man's tent, running a javelin or spear through the man and the belly of the woman, bringing to an end the plague sent by God to punish the Israelites for sexually intermingling with the Midianites.
...
He was appointed the third High Priest of Israel...He is commemorated as a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church.

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