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Varkk
592 posts

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  #2554975 1-Sep-2020 16:45
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networkn:

 

tehgerbil:

 

Honestly, with the thinly veiled white supremacist like Pauline Hanson in a position of Political power in Australia despite her open and blatant racism is evidence there's enough people in Australia who support extremely racist views currently to make scared enough to keep him in New Zealand.

 

 

A position of political power? I don't think so. Hardly enough to overcome the entire rest of the Government and legal system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Depends on how the parliament is balanced really. She could end up in a position where One Australia party votes are needed to allow the Liberal/National coalition to form a government.


PsychoSmiley
171 posts

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  #2554983 1-Sep-2020 16:58
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tehgerbil:

 

Honestly, with the thinly veiled white supremacist like Pauline Hanson in a position of Political power in Australia despite her open and blatant racism is evidence there's enough people in Australia who support extremely racist views currently to make scared enough to keep him in New Zealand.

 

 

If you think NZ doesn't contain people of a similar politically motivated mind set then I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

I find is frankly laughable that there is a contingent of tin-foil hat loons here that actually believe the Australian government would release a mass murdered in a hypothetical situation they actually had their hands on him. There is one rotting in prison over there right now who will never see freedom again and he in pure numbers terms did less damage than the Christchurch peanut.

 

If you accept that this could happen in a hypothetically AU politcal scenario, I say again you need to be far more worried about it happening here because the absurd possibility is just as likely.


  #2554985 1-Sep-2020 17:02
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Yeah sorry my mistake I took entity to mean person and not organisation.

 

Would be interested to see what he is listed as when it has been amended and put back up. 





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elpenguino
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  #2555015 1-Sep-2020 18:04
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Handle9:

 

snnet:

 

Can we bill australia for holding this piece of crap? 

 

 

I'm quite confident that quid pro quo for prison costs would be a net loss for NZ. 

 

 

Justice must be done. 

 

The cost doesn't matter, we're just going to pay it.





Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21


Handle9
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  #2555060 1-Sep-2020 18:11
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elpenguino:

 

Handle9:

 

I'm quite confident that quid pro quo for prison costs would be a net loss for NZ. 

 

 

Justice must be done. 

 

The cost doesn't matter, we're just going to pay it.

 

 

Sure, there was no suggestion to the contrary.


Fred99

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  #2555085 1-Sep-2020 18:48
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Perfectly reasonable for the PM to consult with families of the victims - to let them advise what they want done with this piece of garbage.  I'd be *reasonably happy to see it locked up for life in Aus, but OTOH I don't begrudge the cost to have it kept permanently in a secure cage here either.  If what the families of the victims prefer is to get it further away and out of our lives, then get the laws in place and do it.

 

 


gzt

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  #2555212 1-Sep-2020 21:05
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Imo this individual convicted of this crime in NZ will prefer to serve his sentence in Australia. The individual did not want to attend sentencing even. What more reason do you need to see the sentence served here in NZ?

networkn
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  #2555215 1-Sep-2020 21:06
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gzt: Imo this individual convicted of this crime in NZ will prefer to serve his sentence in Australia. The individual did not want to attend sentencing even. What more reason do you need to see the sentence served here in NZ?

 

 

 

To save the millions upon millions upon millions that would be better spent literally *anywhere* else. If you really wanted to wind him up (not that he would have a way of knowing), you could spend it on Anti-racism and inclusiveness education :)


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  #2555217 1-Sep-2020 21:08
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Handle9:

 

snnet:

 

Can we bill australia for holding this piece of crap? It all seems very one sided when they deport people who have lived there for years, if we're not deporting this winner I reckon they should have to pay for his imprisonment. Yeah, tit for tat but idc

 

 

I'm quite confident that quid pro quo for prison costs would be a net loss for NZ. There are a lot of New Zealanders in Australia, far fewer Australians in NZ. The normal distribution of criminals among those people would suggest NZ would have to pay.

 

 

The Australian PM has said he is prepared to take him, and not consider a need to "balance the books" as such.


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  #2555220 1-Sep-2020 21:13
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networkn:

Handle9:


I'm quite confident that quid pro quo for prison costs would be a net loss for NZ. There are a lot of New Zealanders in Australia, far fewer Australians in NZ. The normal distribution of criminals among those people would suggest NZ would have to pay.



The Australian PM has said he is prepared to take him, and not consider a need to "balance the books" as such.



Sure.

What was discussed was "tit for tat". That wouldn't be in NZs benefit.

dejadeadnz
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  #2555228 1-Sep-2020 21:37
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networkn:

 

To save the millions upon millions upon millions that would be better spent literally *anywhere* else. If you really wanted to wind him up (not that he would have a way of knowing), you could spend it on Anti-racism and inclusiveness education :)

 

 

Honestly, just drop the fantasy. Anyone with any kind of serious knowledge of the real world requirements for all this to occur (i.e. passing of legislation and attendant effort/time) knows that this is just all talk. And those things also cost money.

 

This kind of thing might be entertaining to blog about but it's not going to happen and were it to happen it will absolutely bring the NZ justice system into disrepute in the eyes of intelligent people who understand what a serious justice system is about. The crime happened here, the NZ courts system passed the sentence, and that should be that.

 

 

 

 


gzt

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  #2555276 1-Sep-2020 21:54
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networkn:
gzt: Imo this individual convicted of this crime in NZ will prefer to serve his sentence in Australia. The individual did not want to attend sentencing even. What more reason do you need to see the sentence served here in NZ?

To save the millions upon millions upon millions that would be better spent literally *anywhere* else. If you really wanted to wind him up (not that he would have a way of knowing), you could spend it on Anti-racism and inclusiveness education :)

I'll return to my original point. It's a bad idea to outsource core functions of national sovereignty.

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  #2555292 1-Sep-2020 23:16
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Fred99:

 

Perfectly reasonable for the PM to consult with families of the victims - to let them advise what they want done with this piece of garbage.  I'd be *reasonably happy to see it locked up for life in Aus, but OTOH I don't begrudge the cost to have it kept permanently in a secure cage here either.  If what the families of the victims prefer is to get it further away and out of our lives, then get the laws in place and do it.

 

 

This seems the most sensible way forward I've seen. The money is totally irrelevant to me - it'll make approximately zero difference to any NZ individuals life if the money gets spent on jailing this person or not. It'll stay in the corrections budget either way.


kingdragonfly
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  #2555721 2-Sep-2020 15:13
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New York Times: New Zealand Massacre Sentencing: What to Expect

[The murderer] pleaded guilty in March after murdering 51 people and wounding 40 at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand. But the final phase of the case presents a series of challenges.

...“The unfortunate bottom line is no one really knows how it’s going to go,” said Alexander Gillespie, a law professor at the University of Waikato. “This is his last public performance, so for someone who has committed such an act, you can guarantee he will try to do something — and you just have to reduce that risk.”

What is the court doing to keep Tarrant from exploiting the situation?

The judge in charge of the case, Justice Cameron Mander, has put in place a series of restrictions on media coverage that aim to keep provocative moments that might incite hatred from being shared immediately, if at all.

In a memo sent to journalists last week, Justice Mander warned that he had the right to set limits on what they reported.

“The court may determine what information can be published about a hearing and when it can be published,” he wrote.

Other rules are already in place. Any republication of the manifesto and the video of the attacks “is prohibited and constitutes an offense,” according to Judge Mander’s statement.

Mr. Gillespie said these efforts were an attempt to curb [the murderer]’s influence. “They are determined that he does not do more damage to the victims, instigate further crimes, and the integrity of the court is not damaged,” he said.

But doesn’t [the murderer] have a right to address the court?

Defendants in New Zealand are typically granted the right to provide information that could mitigate their sentence. But the judge is expected to be strict about keeping in check what can be said.

The reason a defendant committed a crime is a factor that often helps determine punishment. But [The murderer]’s motivation is not in dispute, because he pleaded guilty to terrorism, said Kris Gledhill, a law professor at Auckland University of Technology, who recently outlined what to expect from the sentencing. “That should allow the judge to control the hearing firmly.”

So-called standby counsel may also help. The judge has appointed a lawyer to act in this capacity to “advise the offender about the law and the court process and to provide the offender with assistance if sought.”

He added, “This is to make sure the process runs smoothly and is fair.”
...

freitasm
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  #2566113 16-Sep-2020 17:49
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"NZ youth picked up by FBI after talking online about carrying out a mass shooting"

 

 

A young man who had talked online about the Christchurch mosque shooter’s video told others he worshipped the gunman and wanted to complete his mission.

 

“My purpose is to recruit people and to complete ... [the shooter’s] mission”

 

In November, last year the 15-year-old was picked up online by the FBI in the United States talking about a mass shooting attack he was planning with another user he was talking to and claiming it would be New Zealand’s second mass murder. He said they had chosen a date for it.

 

US authorities feared there was an imminent risk and made a request for the IP address to show where the people were located. One was the youth at his Porirua home.

 

The youth - who can not be named under Youth Court rules - had been charged with possessing and copying objectionable material.

 

A third charge of possession of a firearm was withdrawn by Youth Court judge Mary O’Dwyer at the police’s application.

 

The judge discharged him in the Hutt Valley Youth Court on Wednesday saying she remembered him coming to court frightened and anxious.

 

A discharge in the Youth Court means there is no record of a conviction.

 

The video was made an objectionable publication in the aftermath of the shooting by Chief Censor David Shanks on March 18 last year because of its depiction and promotion of extreme violence and terrorism.

 

The teenager’s lawyer, Louise Sziranyi, said he did not deny the charges and had now lived without the Internet for nearly a year as part of his bail conditions.

 





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