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8600 posts

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  # 2199888 16-Mar-2019 23:33
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Ge0rge: As an aside, we used to have firearms registered to their owner here in NZ - unsure when and why that changed, but it's odd that the police would choose to give that up?

 

It happened with the Arms Act of 1983.

 

As for implementation which was later, that was after when I left NZ for about a decade, I'd sold a rifle in about '84, filled in the details on my license and the buyer did the same on police forms, serial numbers etc and left the country.  That information (rifle serial number /ownership change) can't have been processed properly on any reasonably accurate system, as after I left, a series of letters were sent by NZ police to people living in residence I'd left in the '70s - and not even the address I was living at when I first got a gun license - perhaps where I was living when I first got a drivers license at 15.  About 1988 I dropped back in to godzone, I opened them (all the same - about updating my license for the firearm they should have known I didn't have, and warning of penalties if I didn't), I tossed them in the rubbish bin, jumped on a plane and forgot about it.  That's it - never heard a squeak from Police since, but if they dug back on records that they probably still have in some archive, and if they did some data matching, they'd probably think I was an unlicensed owner of a high power rifle, and have cause to pay me a visit, 34 years after I got rid of my last gun.

 

LOL - here you go from Wikipedia:

 

 

Increasing gun crime in the 1960s led to greater police use of registration records, which were generally inaccurate or out-of-date. A project to check the register began in 1967, and found that 66 percent of entries were inaccurate in some way, with many guns not to be found at all. Police thought that the register was largely useless, and that substantial resources would be needed to keep it up-to-date. It was believed that the government would be unlikely to provide the resources required to update the register and that it would be politically difficult to demand registration information from firearm owners. Various new laws were introduced in the 1970s and 80s, proposing more government checks, registration of shotguns (which had been abandoned) and individual licensing.

 

An internal police report in 1982 criticised the proposals, saying there was no evidence that registration of guns helped to solve crimes, and that registration would use time and money better spent on other police work. This policy was adopted by the government in the 1983 Act 

 

 

So actually Police wanted to give it up, as they weren't competent / well enough resourced to maintain an accurate register as early as the '60s.  Keystone cops LOL, though to be fair in those days they'd have needed a central team in Wgtn to maintain records and a daily update by NZ post from every police station in NZ.


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  # 2199899 17-Mar-2019 00:43
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timmay556:

Such a disappointment that good honest kiwis will be the ones punished the most for this nutjob. So many honest law abiding citizens use firearms each day for enjoyment and now our rights will be eroded once again.



I just want to clarify one thing.

Gun owners rights are not affected in any way. You do not have the right to have a gun. In this New Zealand it is a privilege, and society allows you to have one, with appropriate safeguards.

Thank goodness we don't have the nonsense of the American constitution.

 
 
 
 




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  # 2199916 17-Mar-2019 06:19
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As for the Bruce Rifle Club based in Milton, where the perpetrator honed his skills using semi-automatic military style weapons, there are now conflicting stories in the media.

 

The gun clubs POV:

 

 

“Brenton just presented as a regular guy…. We scrutinise our members obviously, but in relation to the basic rules of the arms code and how they handle firearms and follow the rules. We do not scrutinise them to assess if they are white supremacist nationalists because as far as we knew, we didn’t have those types in NZ,” says Scott Williams, club vice-president.

 

Tarrant joined the club in early 2018 and in the manifesto he posted online before the terrorist attack on the mosques took place, he talks about training to handle firearms.

 

And an ex NZDF soldier's comments to the media:

 

 

Pete Breidahl, 40, a former member of the New Zealand Defence Force, says he attended the club on three occasions, the last of which was in November, 2017, and overheard members talking about mass shootings, the zombie apocalypse and Martin Bryant, the man responsible for the Port Arthur Massacre.

 

He was concerned the ethos at the club was the "perfect breeding ground" for a mass shooter and lodged a formal complaint with the police.

 

"The conversations I had and the people I met literally terrified me to my core and I left early.
"The place just stunk of inadequacy compensated through use and ownership of semi automatic firearms. It was pretty f...ing disturbing."

 

He said he went to the Dunedin Police Station not long after and lodged a formal complaint with the arms officer.

 

"I was advised they were well aware of the Bruce Rifle Club - 'they're just a bunch of silly old duffers, that's just what they're like down there, they're a bit funny but it's nothing to worry about'."

 

 

 




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  # 2199924 17-Mar-2019 07:18
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Adding to the above, I'd seen a recent social media post from Pete Breidahl, wasn't going to post it for a couple of reasons, the content was NSFW, and could have been interpreted as an attempt at grandstanding that couldn't be substantiated - no proof that he actually did take action and at the time the news article was published, police claim to not have a record of his formal complaint.

 

But here we go - a screenshot of social media posts made by Breidahl, dated November 2017, confirming how he felt at the time:

 

 

 

 


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  # 2200016 17-Mar-2019 09:20
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dejadeadnz:

 

Seriously, I am not trying to be flippant but the problems to do with our gun laws are ridiculously well-adverted and our politicians are well aware of them. They just don't care. I did a quick search on what the Law Society has said on this issue and be prepared to weep.

 

Parliament's Law and Order Committee released a report in 2017 recommending the following changes to the Arms Act (the Committee itself originally made 20 recommendations apparently).

 

  • Amending the law so that a firearms licence is required to possess ammunition, unless the person in possession of the ammunition is under the immediate supervision of a firearms licence holder.
  • Amending the law so that a firearms dealer's licence be required to sell or supply ammunition by way of a business.
  • Amending the law so that dealers are required to keep records of sales of ammunition.
  • Amending the Arms Act 1983 to clearly state that a gang member or prospect must not be considered a fit and proper person to possess firearms and therefore must not hold a firearms licence.
  • Amending the law to require the Police to record the serial numbers of all firearms possessed by licence holders upon renewal of their licence or inspection of their premises.
  • Reviewing the penalties in the Arms Act 1983.
  • Amending the law so that where a dealer has committed an offence under the Arms Act, the court must treat this as an aggravating factor at sentencing.
  • Amending the law to make it clear that the secure storage requirements must be met to the satisfaction of the Police, before a licence or endorsement can be issued.
  • Extending Police powers to enter premises to inspect the security of "A" category firearms.
  • Amending the Arms Act so that failure to comply with the storage regulations must result in revocation of a firearms licence.

Would anyone like to play a guessing game on who played blocker on these recommendations? New Zealand First.

 

 

Most FAL holders were OK with a lot of that. The only point most choked on is gun registration, it's not so much they don't want it but they don't trust the police to manage it well - and in countries like Canada is has failed miserably. The other point was the storage requirements meeting Police satisfaction - they should meet the law not what the local cop wants on that day - there is no room in our laws to make them flexible enough for the police to define things as they go - that just leads to confusion.

 

On the semi-auto's I suspect they will move all semi's to E-cat (expect maybe rimfires like .22). Then if someone really really requires a semi they can access them by attaining an E-cat license. It's going to kill some of the sporting use... but 49 people are dead. We need to do something, we just need to get it right.

 

I am a FAL holder.


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  # 2200020 17-Mar-2019 09:45
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I only know one person from my circle of friends who has a firearm; it's licensed but on Friday he was fully expecting reforms and seemed pretty supportive of them.

 

I would like to see firearm penalties severely stiffened for any registered owner caught selling to non-registered owners as well, to the point of culpability if said a firearm used in a crime can be linked back to such a sale; the talking point of 'only the baddies will have guns' is a pretty terrible excuse to not reform and it's not like this wasn't already a problem in NZ. 

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10546816


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  # 2200070 17-Mar-2019 11:00
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GV27:

 

I only know one person from my circle of friends who has a firearm; it's licensed but on Friday he was fully expecting reforms and seemed pretty supportive of them.

 

I would like to see firearm penalties severely stiffened for any registered owner caught selling to non-registered owners as well, to the point of culpability if said a firearm used in a crime can be linked back to such a sale; the talking point of 'only the baddies will have guns' is a pretty terrible excuse to not reform and it's not like this wasn't already a problem in NZ. 

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10546816

 

 

The argument is not baddies will have guns, the argument is the laws only punish the law abiding. For example the storage laws (I have no issue with the current ones), if they made them ridiculously difficult only law abiding gun owners will be impacted as criminals don't care.

 

And some of the reforms like a gun register are shown to be ineffective. In fact the Police are supposed to keep a register of weapons like E-Cat, but already make a massive fustercluck of it. Owners are legitimately concerned that such poor record keeping will impact them, and potentially be used a shopping list for criminals (police IT systems are notoriously underfunded and poorly secured).

 

The pitiful sentences for firearms offences constantly outrages the firearms community. A good example, Gustav Sanft the father that blew his 2 year old daughters head off with a shotgun. He had no FAL, the gun was illegal (sawn off among other things), and he was a drug dealer - yet he only gets 4 and a bit years. Or Michael Hayes - who supplied the whangarei shooter his guns ... he got a mere 12 months home detention.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2200128 17-Mar-2019 11:12
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The way I see it, banning semi autos or even ar 15s doesn't really fix this problem.

End of the day the guns used in the incident were modified in such a way that is not legal.

Further checks, registration and random checkups would lead to this sort of thing being more difficult to hide.

Per the shooters manafesto, he wanted to cause a reform. Wanted to cause a big media stir.
We as a country are currently fulfilling every wim.

My personal experience with gun licenses is they are taken pretty seriously.
My family have moved from being pretty relaxed about them to meeting every legal requirement.

Edit. Sp...




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  # 2200141 17-Mar-2019 11:40
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I have no interest in guns whatsoever, though I had some exposure when I was young. I find some of the earlier posts in this thread disturbing. There is no 'right' to own a firearm in this country, and there should not be. I hope semi-automatic firearms of every description are banned. If people must hunt, restrict them to bolt-action weapons. For rabbits and the like, air rifles are sufficient, 22s at the most. The rest needs to go in the rubbish bin. I frankly don't give a damn how this impinges on the enjoyment of gun nuts. I also don't give a damn about the fake arguments that this won't save lives, or all the other things that kill people. In modern New Zealand there is no actual need for firearms of any description. Those who can't get through the day without them will just have to find another hobby. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2200174 17-Mar-2019 12:39
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hio77: We as a country are carrently fulfilling every wim.

 

The fact he wanted to troll the country by murdering 50 people isn't a valid reason to not reform gun control. 

 

 




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  # 2200175 17-Mar-2019 12:46
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hio77: The way I see it, banning semi autos or even ar 15s doesn't really fix this problem.

End of the day the guns used in the incident were modified in such a way that is not legal.

 

"Modified" WRT the AR15s was to simply buy a 30 round (or larger) magazine, which you can buy off the shelf from gun stores in NZ without holding a special category license, and practically no chance of being caught - unless you're very stupid.

 

In the wake of the Port Arthur Massacre (1996):

 

 

The Australian government “banned automatic and semiautomatic firearms, adopted new licensing requirements, established a national firearms registry, and instituted a 28-day waiting period for gun purchases. It also bought and destroyed more than 600,000 civilian-owned firearms, in a scheme that cost half a billion dollars and was funded by raising taxes.” The entire overhaul took just months to implement.

 

Between 1995 and 2006, gun-related homicides and suicides in the country dropped by 59 percent and 65 percent, respectively.

 

 

 




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  # 2200178 17-Mar-2019 12:50
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  # 2200182 17-Mar-2019 13:03
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Fred99:

 

Panic buying of guns ahead of ban sparked by christchurch shooting

 

Sickening gun nut behaviour.

 

 

Anyone panic-buying from the 15th onwards needs to be on a watch-list. 


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  # 2200196 17-Mar-2019 13:37
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Fred99:

 

Panic buying of guns ahead of ban sparked by christchurch shooting

 

Sickening gun nut behaviour.

 

 

Pretty sure if the government were talking about banning Nvidia graphics cards a whole bunch of gaming nuts would panic buy too. That's just human nature.




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  # 2200201 17-Mar-2019 14:02
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Tracer:

 

Fred99:

 

Panic buying of guns ahead of ban sparked by christchurch shooting

 

Sickening gun nut behaviour.

 

 

Pretty sure if the government were talking about banning Nvidia graphics cards a whole bunch of gaming nuts would panic buy too. That's just human nature.

 

 

*sigh*

 

But they haven't, won't, and gaming cards weren't just used by one person to murder 50 people and live-stream the horror for the pleasure of other fascists.

 

 


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