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DS9

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  # 2325585 26-Sep-2019 20:53
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elpenguino:

 

You can disagree if you want, but do you have a rational explanation to do so?

 

In some cases what is best for me is not best for my neighbour and vice versa. But we work together and try to head in the same direction. Scale that idea up and you have central national government. A system in which those in otago live under the same rules as those in auckland, even if it means they can't marry their sisters.

 

That's a joke by the way.

 

I'm in favour of scaling up beyond national governments as I feel it's the only way we'll solve some of the world's problems. Of course this will be difficult when we have the idea of the nation state and with it 'patriotism'.

 

I just don't see what's so great about being English that the English think they aren't that anymore, and will be again when they drop out of the EU.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I grew up being European, I've always been for a federal Europe, what we have though is a farce of a system where unelected bureaucrats run a 'government' that tells duly elected national governments what laws, what taxes and tariffs (on NZ products) to enact and what subsidies each nation must pay to French farmers etc... If the MEPs were legislators as in all legitimate (western) governments, I'd have voted remain plain and simple.

 

 

 

I voted National (basically a Blairite party) in the last election and all previous that I was eligible for as they're as close to the UK Labour party that I grew up with (post 1992), I accept they lost and even though I might moan a little..., democracy is more important to me than anything else, so I accept the government we have and the policies they enact.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but there'll probably never be a 'world' government as a lot of nations, tribes, communities will never accept laws, powers etc in the hands of those they'll never see eye to eye with.

 

 

 

*edit*





I aim to misbehave.


gzt

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  # 2325638 26-Sep-2019 22:22
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DS9: I, along with 17.4M other British voters support what Boris is doing,

Your number refers to those who voted Brexit in the referendum. It does not automatically mean these voters all support Johnson's approach to resolving the issue.

 
 
 
 


DS9

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  # 2325642 26-Sep-2019 22:38
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gzt:
DS9: I, along with 17.4M other British voters support what Boris is doing,

Your number refers to those who voted Brexit in the referendum. It does not automatically mean these voters all support Johnson's approach to resolving the issue.


The offer was in or out (out of the single market, the ECJ and EU), on that bases, I'd say if there was a general election next week, Boris would win by a landslide.




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  # 2325651 27-Sep-2019 00:43
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DS9:

 

I, along with 17.4M other British voters support what Boris is doing, Parliament (remainers) are enacting a coup against the democratically elected government.

 

 

 

 

MPs are democratically elected, a government is formed by a group of MPs able to pass motions of supply and confidence. In the UK there is no such thing as a democratically elected government, there are only democratically elected MPs. 

 

How can parliament enact a coup against democratically elected government? If the Torys can't pass laws in parliament then, by definition, they are not the government.

 

The Brexit referendum wasn't binding (ie it wasn't tied to a specific piece of legislation that would be enacted if the referendum passed). Not withstanding that it's pretty clear that a majority in parliament supports leaving but has absolutely no idea how to do it without tanking the UK economy.

 

It's basically a sh1tshow with no end in sight.


DS9

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  # 2325659 27-Sep-2019 06:26
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Handle9:

DS9:


I, along with 17.4M other British voters support what Boris is doing, Parliament (remainers) are enacting a coup against the democratically elected government.



 


MPs are democratically elected, a government is formed by a group of MPs able to pass motions of supply and confidence. In the UK there is no such thing as a democratically elected government, there are only democratically elected MPs. 


How can parliament enact a coup against democratically elected government? If the Torys can't pass laws in parliament then, by definition, they are not the government.


The Brexit referendum wasn't binding (ie it wasn't tied to a specific piece of legislation that would be enacted if the referendum passed). Not withstanding that it's pretty clear that a majority in parliament supports leaving but has absolutely no idea how to do it without tanking the UK economy.


It's basically a sh1tshow with no end in sight.



You've answered my point for me, the government cannot govern, yet parliament will not allow an election, hence it has taken over, coup...

As for the referendum, it may not have been legally binding, it did say at the bottom, we will enact the vote, so it was politically binding.




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  # 2325660 27-Sep-2019 06:30
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Stop being dramatic. There is nothing that parliament is doing that is outside the law. A coup is totally different. There has been nothing illegal about parliament's actions, unlike Johnson's behavior.

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  # 2325665 27-Sep-2019 07:16
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Handle9: Stop being dramatic. There is nothing that parliament is doing that is outside the law. A coup is totally different. There has been nothing illegal about parliament's actions, unlike Johnson's behavior.

 

 

 

And in fact the Supreme Court's unanimous decision seems pretty clear: Parliament is in charge, not Boris Johnson, so if there is disagreement between the two, it is the PM that needs to back down.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2325695 27-Sep-2019 08:22
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Handle9: Stop being dramatic. There is nothing that parliament is doing that is outside the law. A coup is totally different. There has been nothing illegal about parliament's actions, unlike Johnson's behavior.

 

Are the people who said proroguing was an affront to democracy but who also won't allow an election to take place also being dramatic? 


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  # 2325697 27-Sep-2019 08:32
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DS9:

 

I, along with 17.4M other British voters support what Boris is doing, Parliament (remainers) are enacting a coup against the democratically elected government. I laugh at the misinformation being peddled about leaving the EU but I can guarantee that no Kiwi would want their laws enacted by bureaucrats in Canberra, yet are surprised and against the British people that are sick of it happening to them via Brussels/Strasbourg.

 

 

 

 

We already do have a lot of regulations set by Canberra. It simply isn't economically feasible for us to set our own standards for a lot of things. So we use the Australian ones. If we set our own standards we would see less things made for the NZ market than are currently made for the NZ/Aus market.


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  # 2325707 27-Sep-2019 08:53
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DS9:

 

... Parliament (remainers) are enacting a coup against the democratically elected government...

 

 

Until we see people marching around with guns and a few dead bodies I don't think you can really call it a coup.


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  # 2325710 27-Sep-2019 08:57
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DS9: 

The offer was in or out (out of the single market, the ECJ and EU), on that bases, I'd say if there was a general election next week, Boris would win by a landslide.

 

32% (+/- 5%) of the popular vote isn't even close to a "landslide". Combined with BXP and there's only around 45% in optimistic polls. To win - let alone by a landslide - relies on quirks of the fpp system. I'd wager that all the parties are just as confused about the possible outcome as the "expert pollsters" as you'd need to poll outcome in each electorate, which is meaningless as nobody knows yet what agreements will be made to collaborte and withdraw party candidates in any of the closer polling electorates. 

 

 


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  # 2325727 27-Sep-2019 09:26
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DS9:

 

elpenguino:

 

You can disagree if you want, but do you have a rational explanation to do so?

 

In some cases what is best for me is not best for my neighbour and vice versa. But we work together and try to head in the same direction. Scale that idea up and you have central national government. A system in which those in otago live under the same rules as those in auckland, even if it means they can't marry their sisters.

 

That's a joke by the way.

 

I'm in favour of scaling up beyond national governments as I feel it's the only way we'll solve some of the world's problems. Of course this will be difficult when we have the idea of the nation state and with it 'patriotism'.

 

I just don't see what's so great about being English that the English think they aren't that anymore, and will be again when they drop out of the EU.

 

 

 

 

I grew up being European, I've always been for a federal Europe, what we have though is a farce of a system where unelected bureaucrats <SNIP> 

 

*edit*

 

 

How do you feel about having a bunch of unelected toffs, clerics and old boys having the power of veto over every law chosen by commoners?

 

 


DS9

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  # 2325952 27-Sep-2019 12:52
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MurrayM:

DS9:


... Parliament (remainers) are enacting a coup against the democratically elected government...



Until we see people marching around with guns and a few dead bodies I don't think you can really call it a coup.



I think those that are called haters, racists, nationalists etc are peacefully awaiting to show their democratic will again, while those who claim to be progressive and inclusive are to chicken sh!t to give them an opportunity.




I aim to misbehave.


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  # 2325998 27-Sep-2019 13:42
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DS9:
MurrayM:

 

DS9:

 

 

 

... Parliament (remainers) are enacting a coup against the democratically elected government...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Until we see people marching around with guns and a few dead bodies I don't think you can really call it a coup.

 



I think those that are called haters, racists, nationalists etc are peacefully awaiting to show their democratic will again, while those who claim to be progressive and inclusive are to chicken sh!t to give them an opportunity.

 

Really? Why do they threaten mayhem if there was to be another referendum?

 

Peacefully - LOL.  Joe Cox RIP.


gzt

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  # 2326003 27-Sep-2019 13:46
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DS9:
MurrayM:

DS9:


... Parliament (remainers) are enacting a coup against the democratically elected government...



Until we see people marching around with guns and a few dead bodies I don't think you can really call it a coup.



I think those that are called haters, racists, nationalists etc are peacefully awaiting to show their democratic will again, while those who claim to be progressive and inclusive are to chicken sh!t to give them an opportunity.

That's not making a lot of sense. I assume in part you are mostly referring to the Labour and Lib Dem members of parliament. Both parties have stated they will agree to an election if Johnson agrees to attempt to extend the negotiation period if no deal is reached by Oct 31. This seems reasonable. Since there is no way to practically hold an election in that timeframe. It makes sense that responsibility for Brexit should be dealt with by the next government.

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