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  # 2339978 18-Oct-2019 07:38
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What Is in the New Brexit Deal?

Northern Ireland’s border controls and its ability to make trade rules are among the central issues covered in the latest agreement between the E.U. and Britain.

New York Times By Benjamin Mueller and Matina Stevis-Gridneff

The biggest roadblock: the Irish border

For Britain, the thorniest part about leaving the European Union has proved to be the Irish border, an invisible line between Northern Ireland, which is part of the United Kingdom, and the Republic of Ireland, a member of the European Union.

...Mrs. May’s solution was the so-called backstop. It kept all of Britain in the European customs union, possibly indefinitely, forcing it to impose the same tariffs as other European countries. And it required Northern Ireland to hew even more closely to European single market rules.

Mr. Johnson tried to find another solution, namely killing off the backstop but adopting different versions of some of its most contentious features.
...
What replaces the backstop?

Mr. Johnson’s plan — unnamed, as yet — would pull the whole United Kingdom out of the European customs union. That was a big victory for Brexiteers, opening a path to Britain striking its own trade deals, including with the United States.

It is also supposed to allay unionists in Northern Ireland because that region would legally be part of the United Kingdom’s customs territory, allowing it to retain its close ties to Britain and to benefit from future trade deals.

But the only way to avoid checks on goods passing from Northern Ireland into the Republic of Ireland was for the north to apply the European Union’s rules and procedures on tariffs — the same ones the Republic of Ireland follows.

...So far, though, this new system of checks has proved too much to bear for unionist lawmakers from Northern Ireland, who have refused Mr. Johnson’s deal and could ultimately be its undoing.

The backstop could last forever. What about the new plan?

Another major objection to Mrs. May’s backstop plan was that elected leaders in Northern Ireland, the region most affected, had no say in what trading rules they would follow or how long they would last.

On this point, Mr. Johnson won a major concession from European leaders. The new deal gives Northern Ireland’s elected body a chance to weigh in on the arrangements and potentially spurn its obligations altogether.

But Northern Ireland could not opt out of European trading rules immediately. Those would take effect at the end of a transition period in 2020 and remain in place for four years before anyone in Northern Ireland could object.

And even then, the Democratic Unionist Party could not, on its own, pull Northern Ireland out from under European rules. (The voting procedure is complex, but lawmakers from other parties in the Northern Ireland Assembly would have to agree.) Unionist lawmakers suggested on Thursday that that was a deal breaker.

Level playing field? Leave it to later.

...Once it is out of the bloc, Britain could be tempted to throw out the rules or water them down. For while they are seen as among the world’s best for the protection of consumers and, increasingly, the environment, they can also be quite stringent and costly to businesses.

...The issue is of such concern that the new agreement entirely omits it. Instead, discussion of a level playing field has been relegated to the nonbinding Political Declaration between the two parties, meaning it can be changed in future.

Critics were quick to see environmental and other loopholes in this detail that could drive down the quality (and, some would say, costs) of certain goods in Britain.

What’s the future for the U.K. and E.U.?

This may be the end of negotiations (may be!) but it’s also the beginning of talks for a new chapter in Britain’s relations with the European Union. The future relationship will be a matter of debate and negotiation that will most likely take years to crystallize.
...
Based on history, such an agreement could take years to negotiate, and would become complicated if Britain started to diverge from European standards on the production of various sensitive goods.

It would also suffer setbacks if the global environment became so fraught that the European Union and Britain found themselves on opposite sides of spats, turning talks over trade hostile.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/17/world/europe/brexit-deal-details.html

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  # 2340922 20-Oct-2019 06:35
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BBC News - Brexit: Johnson vows to press on despite defeat over deal delay

 

breaking

 


Boris Johnson has said he will press on "undaunted" with Brexit on 31 October, despite losing a crunch Commons vote.

 

The PM must now ask the EU for an extension to that deadline after MPs backed an amendment aimed at ruling out a no-deal Brexit, by 322 votes to 306.

 

He told MPs: "I will not negotiate a delay with the EU and neither does the law compel me to do so."

 

He vowed to bring in legislation on Monday to implement the deal he struck with Brussels this week.

 

MPs could also be given another vote on the deal on Monday, if Commons Speaker John Bercow allows it.

 

The Commons defeat is a major setback for the PM, who has repeatedly insisted that the UK will leave at the end of the month come what may.

 

Under the terms of the so-called Benn Act, passed last month by MPs determined to prevent a no-deal Brexit, he has until 11pm to send a letter to the EU requesting an extension. ...

 

 


"Downing Street refused to offer any explanation as to why the prime minister did not consider he was obliged to negotiate a fresh extension."





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  # 2340953 20-Oct-2019 09:21
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BBC News - Brexit: What happens now?

 

flow chart ...

 

Click to see full size

 

(click to view)





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  # 2340971 20-Oct-2019 10:25
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More dirty deeds by Boris ...

 

BBC News - Brexit: PM to send letter to Brussels seeking further delay

 

breaking

 


Boris Johnson will send a letter to the EU by 00:00 BST to request a Brexit delay - but he will not sign it, according to a Downing Street source.

 

The request will be accompanied by a second letter, signed by Mr Johnson, which will say he believes that a delay would be a mistake, the source said.

 

The PM was required by law to ask the EU for an extension to the 31 October deadline after losing a Commons vote. ...

 

 

 





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  # 2342282 23-Oct-2019 09:16
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Another defeat for Boris ...  😐

 

BBC News - Brexit bill 'in limbo' as MPs reject timetable

 

breaking

 


MPs have rejected plans to examine the PM's Brexit bill in three days, leaving the legislation "in limbo".

 

The Commons supported the Withdrawal Agreement Bill earlier, but voted against the short timetable.

 

Earlier, the PM warned he would seek an election if MPs dismissed the plan and the EU granted an extension to 31 October Brexit deadline.

 

After the vote, he told the Commons he would "pause" the legislation until he had spoken to EU leaders. ...

 

MPs did approve the bill on its first hurdle through the Commons - called the second reading - by 329 votes to 299.

 

But in a vote straight after, they rejected the so-called programme motion by 322 votes to 308 after a number of MPs criticised the pace of the [fast-tracked] legislation. ...

 

 


Slow down, warned the skeptics. The British economy is at stake. The skeptics won the day.





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  # 2342317 23-Oct-2019 10:02
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No, the remainers and those trying to further their own political ambitions (eg Corbyn) won the day.


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  # 2342323 23-Oct-2019 10:07
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SJB:

 

No, the remainers and those trying to further their own political ambitions (eg Corbyn) won the day.

 

 

They're all trying to further their own political ambitions, but Boris takes the cake as he's blaming his repeated failures on a parliamentary process that actually should work to stop him from doing exactly what he's trying to do. 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2342364 23-Oct-2019 10:39
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Johnson has failed because he is in government but not in power and never has been in his short reign.

 

This can all be traced back to Theresa May's disastrous decision to have an election when she actually had a working, albeit relatively small, majority of 17. Oh what Johnson would give for that now.

 

Corbyn knows that if brexit happens on the 31st he's toasted even worse than he currently is. Johnson would win by a large margin. So he keeps trotting out his objections to the withdrawal agreement like some cracked record even though he has been anti EU his whole career. Workers rights will be eroded is one of the axes he grinds when in fact workers rights are only protected by the EU while it is a left leaning organization. If it took a lurch to the right they would be under threat and at a country level you would just have to suck it up. If you are outside the EU and your government erodes workers rights vote them out at the next election and vote in a government that will protect you. Same goes for protecting the NHS which is another of his mantras.


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  # 2342369 23-Oct-2019 10:53
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Can Brexit even happen on the 31st now?

 

I understand that they can't vote again on the same bill that Johnson just lost, the EU will grant an extension as a no-deal is bad for the EU, there seems to be little chance that another bill sufficiently different to be constitutionally acceptable to vote on can be debated and passed.

 

It does my head in - seems like a crazy game of post-stalemate speed chess where nobody seems to be sure of the rules.


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  # 2342388 23-Oct-2019 11:28
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No, the 31st doesn't look possible now. If, unexpectedly, the EU came back and said no extension it's remotely possible parliament would buckle and pass Johnsons agreement but it might also conceivably vote to revoke article 50 and stay in the EU rather than crash out without a deal. That though would be highly controversial.

 

I think the most likely route is a 3 month extension while the UK has a general election. Hopefully that would result in a government with a working majority so they could push thru whatever policy they had championed ie Johnsons deal for the Tories or another referendum for Labour.

 

The worst election result would be a hung parliament or a coalition government. The UK needs a stable 5 year term government to let this mess subside.

 

One thing that gets my goat is MP's from all sides claiming that what they are doing is upholding democratic principles when they are pursuing their own agenda. Take the Letwin motion that was approved on Saturday that meant the withdrawal agreement could not be passed by a single bill but needed the supporting legislation to be debated and passed, effectively meaning the 31st deadline was unachievable.

 

Oliver Letwin, a Tory, has been in parliament (ie sucking on the public teat) since the 1980's but is standing down at the next election. He represents an electorate where the referendum vote mirrored the national result but he is a dyed in the wool remainer so instead of representing the abeit small majority from his electorate he puts two fingers up to them and tries to block brexit any way he can while maintaining he is supporting democracy.


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  # 2342393 23-Oct-2019 11:44
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Click to see full size

 

(click to view)

 

The ideal reference text:

 

The Story of Brexit (Ladybirds for Grown-Ups) Hardcover - 25 Oct 2018
 
Get it here  

 


Brexit gave us lots of exciting new words, like brextremist, remoaner, bremoaner, remaybe, breprehensible, remaintenance, brexorcist, remaidstone, brex-girlfriend, remange, brextortion, remayhem and bregret.

 

The new words make it harder for foreigners to understand what we are saying.

 

In a tough, new international business world, small advantages such as this can be crucial.

 





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  # 2342413 23-Oct-2019 12:22
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SJB:

 

No, the 31st doesn't look possible now. If, unexpectedly, the EU came back and said no extension it's remotely possible parliament would buckle and pass Johnsons agreement but it might also conceivably vote to revoke article 50 and stay in the EU rather than crash out without a deal. That though would be highly controversial.

 

I think the most likely route is a 3 month extension while the UK has a general election. Hopefully that would result in a government with a working majority so they could push thru whatever policy they had championed ie Johnsons deal for the Tories or another referendum for Labour.

 

The worst election result would be a hung parliament or a coalition government. The UK needs a stable 5 year term government to let this mess subside.

 

One thing that gets my goat is MP's from all sides claiming that what they are doing is upholding democratic principles when they are pursuing their own agenda. Take the Letwin motion that was approved on Saturday that meant the withdrawal agreement could not be passed by a single bill but needed the supporting legislation to be debated and passed, effectively meaning the 31st deadline was unachievable.

 

Oliver Letwin, a Tory, has been in parliament (ie sucking on the public teat) since the 1980's but is standing down at the next election. He represents an electorate where the referendum vote mirrored the national result but he is a dyed in the wool remainer so instead of representing the abeit small majority from his electorate he puts two fingers up to them and tries to block brexit any way he can while maintaining he is supporting democracy.

 

 

 

 

If the EU doesn't give them an extension there's a very simple way around it - revoke Article 50 and then immediately invoke Article 50. Tada, 2 year extension.





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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  # 2342449 23-Oct-2019 13:24
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SJB

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  # 2342471 23-Oct-2019 14:19
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SaltyNZ:

 

If the EU doesn't give them an extension there's a very simple way around it - revoke Article 50 and then immediately invoke Article 50. Tada, 2 year extension.

 

 

It's possible that to invoke article 50 again probably needs Parliament to vote in favor. It wouldn't.

 

And if it didn't need a parliamentary vote there are plenty of people who would be only too willing to get the courts involved to force a parliamentary vote and the courts seem only to ready to get stuck in to political matters there days. Shades of the USA.


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  # 2342514 23-Oct-2019 16:13
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SJB:

 

SaltyNZ:

 

If the EU doesn't give them an extension there's a very simple way around it - revoke Article 50 and then immediately invoke Article 50. Tada, 2 year extension.

 

 

It's possible that to invoke article 50 again probably needs Parliament to vote in favor. It wouldn't.

 

And if it didn't need a parliamentary vote there are plenty of people who would be only too willing to get the courts involved to force a parliamentary vote and the courts seem only to ready to get stuck in to political matters there days. Shades of the USA.

 

 

If politicians wont follow the rules that's fair enough though isn't it? There's a constitution so follow it.

 

I prefer that to some dictatorial system where the leader can do whatever they want.


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