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SJB

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  # 2310760 4-Sep-2019 19:01
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elpenguino:

 

This really sums up the mindset of the English. The English are trained to remember historic times and the good things that happened long ago ( and of course ignore, the not so good things their empire did)

 

From filling their museums with valuables looted from other countries to hooligans chanting 2 world wars and one world cup.

 

I noted when living there in the 90s that there were new docos about WWII on telly once a week. "We plucky brits stood up to adolf and won the war and returned europe to freedom". Which is/was a good thing but do we need to reminded about it once a week? i guess we do.

 

It's a shame those high and mighty principles are quickly forgotten when there are arms to be sold to 3rd world dictators.

 

 

Do you mind me asking which country you hail from?




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  # 2310767 4-Sep-2019 19:32
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Let's not make it personal folks.

 
 
 
 


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  # 2310798 4-Sep-2019 21:25
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So UK Labour have indeed confirmed that they won't vote for a snap election unless Boris abandons plans for a no-deal Brexit.
Boris needs a 2/3 majority - not sure if this is stalemate or checkmate, but it's certainly an utter shambles.
If he calls for a GE on the basis that he'll still push through Brexit deal or no deal, then he's probably stuffed. If he compromises, he's probably also stuffed. On polling, Corbyn's stuffed too. What's left of the Tories might cobble together a majority in a GE with the Brexit Party, but they also might not, especially as a pro no-deal stance to suit the Brexit party would probably lose the Tories some seats. And on the other side, Labour under Corbyn and Lib Dems might be united in opposing no-deal, but forming a workable government, I do not think so.
Boris should probably quit, but that would be out of character.
Correct me if I'm wrong above, but apart from a possible reprieve from immediate hard Brexit, the UK has a new PM who has achieved less than nothing over his predecessor, and I have about as much chance of guessing the lotto numbers as forming a valid opinion on what state the U K will be in by the end if the year.

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  # 2310806 4-Sep-2019 21:48
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Rikkitic:

 

Having lived there for so many years, I never had a sense that my democratic rights were being eroded by our EU membership.

 

 

I think it's fair to acknowledge that with bi/multipartisan trade deals, democratic rights of citizens of member states are eroded to some degree - or deals made are at risk of being rendered worthless at the whim of voters / election cycles.

 

Well you still could, but the cost would be very high, something leavers do not acknowledge.

 

"On balance" deals should be of mutual benefit, and not reversible on a whim.


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  # 2310831 4-Sep-2019 23:12
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SJB:

 

Do you mind me asking which country you hail from?

 

 

Hardly seems relevant, and I can't change where I'm from.

 

I can change what I think and what I do.


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  # 2310936 5-Sep-2019 09:28
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BBC News - Boris Johnson's call for general election rejected by MPs

 

Boris Johnson has faced a double defeat in the Commons after MPs turned down his motion for a general election.

 

 

Most Labour MPs abstained on the vote, although three MPs appeared to have voted for it and 28 against.

 

The SNP also abstained. 





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  # 2311161 5-Sep-2019 13:04
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Sideface:

 

BBC News - Boris Johnson's call for general election rejected by MPs

 

Boris Johnson has faced a double defeat in the Commons after MPs turned down his motion for a general election.

 

 

Most Labour MPs abstained on the vote, although three MPs appeared to have voted for it and 28 against.

 

The SNP also abstained. 

 

 

 

 

I am sure there is a joke about "Johnson unable to get an election" in there somewhere...


 
 
 
 




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  # 2311250 5-Sep-2019 14:37
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Boris Johnson Loses to Democracy

The prime minister is effectively at war with the Parliament for which he once promised to “take back control.”

New York Times By James Butler

[removed a large part of text]

...The institutional confinement of the Brexit process has been seized on by Dominic Cummings, the former director of Vote Leave, now Mr. Johnson’s chief adviser and architect of his hard-line strategy. Mr. Cummings recognizes a fault line in Britain’s democratic structure: between an exercise conducted by plebiscite — the Brexit referendum — and the conventional, deliberative methods used to interpret and deliver the consequences of that vote.

By painting the referendum as the sole truly democratic exercise, with all subsequent debates and concerns over rights a matter of cynical pettifogging and anti-Brexit trickery, he believes he can deliver a reconfigured political landscape, straddled by Mr. Johnson as a flaxen-haired avatar of the popular will.

Perhaps Mr. Cummings has in mind that half the people surveyed by Hansard claimed they longed for a strong leader to “break the rules” of politics. Yet the strongman has feet of clay. If suspending Parliament was intended to demonstrate Mr. Johnson’s credentials as a champion of the people, it managed to unite only 27 percent of them. Further overreach as the prime minister attempts to break Parliament to his will is unlikely to improve that number.

Nobody doubts new elections are on the horizon, the central issues of which will be shaped in the next weeks. It will be an election that Mr. Johnson intends to fight on a narrow Brexit question. To beat him, the Labour Party, which has been as troubled by division between the two Brexit camps as the country as a whole, will not only need a clear message on Brexit but also some means of bridging its divide. Democracy could be a powerful theme: not just its defense in Parliament but its extension beyond Parliament’s feudal residues and monarchical hangovers, into Britain’s regions and its antiquated electoral system.

It is widely known that Mr. Johnson wants a “people versus politicians” election. Perhaps it is time for the opposition to push for “the country versus Boris Johnson.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/04/opinion/brexit-vote-johnson-uk.html

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  # 2311288 5-Sep-2019 15:45
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Dear ######

 

Parliament is going to debate the petition you signed – “Do not prorogue Parliament”.

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269157

 

The debate is scheduled for 9 September 2019.*

 

Once the debate has happened, we’ll email you a video and transcript.

 

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

 

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Do not prorogue Parliament”.

 



 

*  Brinkmanship! - Parliament is due to be suspended on or about 11 September.   😐





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SJB

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  # 2311300 5-Sep-2019 16:09
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The petition won't make any difference either way. It will be ignored.

 

The author of the NYT article is a British journalist and founder of a radical left wing alternative media company called Novara Media which supported Labour once Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader. Not wholly impartial.

 

I always find the BBC analysis of situations like this to be the most accurate, impartial and professional.

 

Here's a link to an interesting legal article about the bill to force Johnson to ask for an extension.

 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/analysis/106211/explained-how-mps-last-chance-bid-block-no-deal


SJB

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  # 2311302 5-Sep-2019 16:17
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Rikkitic:

 

I happen to come from Holland, a 'smaller' country with one of the better economies. The Dutch have always been strong supporters of the European Union. It certainly has nothing to do with any perceived economic support, since they have been one of the main contributors and are perfectly capable of getting along fine on their own. But having endured two world wars on the Continent, they feel, as do many other EU member states, that being part of a larger community with shared values is an important protection against another descent into madness. 

 

 

Aplogies. I meant poorer countries not smaller.

 

Strangely I think that short stretch of water the Channel has a lot to do with how many Brits feel about Europe. They feel detached, it's just somewhere to go on holiday.

 

I also don't really think the idea of countries in Europe possibly going to war with each other still influences many peoples thinking (at least in Britain) even in this divisive age. It's like an idea from a bygone era and people have too much to lose for too little gain. Maybe perversely that's as a result of the EU existing.


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  # 2311357 5-Sep-2019 16:54
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BBC News - Brexit: Bill designed to stop no-deal 'will clear Lords'

 


The government has said a bill to stop a no-deal Brexit will complete its passage through the Lords on Friday.

 

The proposed legislation was passed by MPs on Wednesday, inflicting a defeat on Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

 

There were fears pro-Brexit peers could deliberately hold up the bill so it could not get royal assent before Parliament is prorogued next week.

 

But the Conservative chief whip in the Lords announced a breakthrough in the early hours after talks with Labour. ...

 

The agreement was announced after a momentous day in the Commons in which the prime minister suffered defeats over the Brexit bill and his plan for a snap general election.

 

 






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  # 2311525 5-Sep-2019 23:14
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All I can take from this is that democracy is a bìg sky ideal that you cite when you don't get your way, but still want to ignore a referendum or stop people from having their say at a ballot box.


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  # 2311537 6-Sep-2019 03:47
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BBC News - PM's brother quits as Tory MP and minister

 

BREAKING

 


Jo Johnson, the younger brother of Prime Minister Boris Johnson, is resigning as an MP and minister, saying he is "torn between family loyalty and the national interest".

 

The business minister and Tory MP for Orpington, south-east London, cited an "unresolvable tension" in his role.

 

Mr Johnson voted Remain in the 2016 EU membership referendum, while his brother co-led the Leave campaign. ...

 

Labour's shadow education secretary Angela Rayner said: "Boris Johnson poses such a threat that even his own brother doesn't trust him."

 

 





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  # 2311539 6-Sep-2019 04:29
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The Washington Post - Trump might like Brexit less when he sees what it does to the economy

 

September 5 at 5:00 AM

 


President Trump’s support for Britain’s exit from the European Union may be about to collide with his election-year hopes of presiding over a strong economy.

 

The president has long seen “Brexit” as reflecting the same sort of nationalist impulse that drove his White House upset in 2016. 

 

He has hailed British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who vows to sever ties with Europe on Oct. 31 no matter what, as a kindred populist spirit.

 

But as British Parliament this week dealt Johnson a stunning four consecutive defeats, the prospect of further delay in leaving the E.U. or a chaotic no-deal divorce spiked.

 

Continuing instability [in the UK economy] threatens to become a drag on an already troubled global economy. ...

 

Despite the economic danger, the Trump administration continues to cheer on the long-running Brexit drama. 

 

At the White House on Wednesday, the president praised the embattled British prime minister shortly before his fourth parliamentary humiliation in little more than 24 hours.

 

He’s a friend of mine, and he’s going at it; there’s no question about it,” Trump told reporters. 

 

Boris knows how to win. Don’t worry about him.” ...

 





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