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  #2368759 5-Dec-2019 13:39
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tdgeek:

 

MikeB4:

 

I was not being literal about the wailing. One change is not enough to save the planet. OMV is a multi national with some very shady history, I believe they were a legitimate target for protest

 

 

Does OMV search outside the existing permits? No. To call them dodgy, then use that to make them a target for violence isnt a fair view. You can find something about anyone and go after them. Including all of our political parties

 

OMV are a legitimate company engaging in legitimate exploration, and they are not lawmakers. You need to go after the lawmakers

 

 

Have you looked at OMVs history? have a look at crimes against humanity as a hint.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  #2368767 5-Dec-2019 14:10
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MikeB4:

 

tdgeek:

 

MikeB4:

 

I was not being literal about the wailing. One change is not enough to save the planet. OMV is a multi national with some very shady history, I believe they were a legitimate target for protest

 

 

Does OMV search outside the existing permits? No. To call them dodgy, then use that to make them a target for violence isnt a fair view. You can find something about anyone and go after them. Including all of our political parties

 

OMV are a legitimate company engaging in legitimate exploration, and they are not lawmakers. You need to go after the lawmakers

 

 

Have you looked at OMVs history? have a look at crimes against humanity as a hint.

 

 

So the protest is relevant because of that or because of exploring here?


 
 
 
 


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  #2368804 5-Dec-2019 14:45
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tdgeek:

 

So the protest is relevant because of that or because of exploring here?

 

 

Yes on both counts





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  #2368807 5-Dec-2019 15:04
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MikeB4:

 

tdgeek:

 

So the protest is relevant because of that or because of exploring here?

 

 

Yes on both counts

 

 

They must have forgot the signs for point1 and point 2 is not relevant. Plus the huge number of other companies doing dodgy stuff can go scott free


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  #2368814 5-Dec-2019 15:21
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@tdgeek  So protesting oil/gas prospecting at a company's property that is doing oil/gas prospecting is irrelevant? where should they protest Toy World? actually I am not playing this pointless game.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  #2368818 5-Dec-2019 15:27
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MikeB4:

 

@tdgeek  So protesting oil/gas prospecting at a company's property that is doing oil/gas prospecting is irrelevant? where should they protest Toy World? actually I am not playing this pointless game.

 

 

Their exploration is legal. The Govt has ceased new permits, existing are legal. If we wish to protest current legal exploration you need to take that up with the Govt. Its not a pointless game its a fact. You are protesting the wrong people, you need to take that up with the lawmakers, protest them




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  #2368819 5-Dec-2019 15:29
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They might as well protest at toy world they act like kids.





Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding : Ice cream man , Ice cream man


 
 
 
 


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  #2368820 5-Dec-2019 15:37
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They act like kids prepared to chain themselves to masts at the cost of considerable inconvenience and discomfort. You try it some time. It gets cold very fast if the weather isn't kind. No fun if you feel a need to use the toilet. No fun just being tied to the same place for an extended period. Disparage them and their motives all you like, but it takes commitment and courage to do something like this. Putting yourself on the line is not something to be sniffed at.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2368827 5-Dec-2019 15:46
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tdgeek:

 

MikeB4:

 

@tdgeek  So protesting oil/gas prospecting at a company's property that is doing oil/gas prospecting is irrelevant? where should they protest Toy World? actually I am not playing this pointless game.

 

 

Their exploration is legal. The Govt has ceased new permits, existing are legal. If we wish to protest current legal exploration you need to take that up with the Govt. Its not a pointless game its a fact. You are protesting the wrong people, you need to take that up with the lawmakers, protest them

 

 

 

 

Don't confuse legal with being right.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  #2368903 5-Dec-2019 17:06
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MikeB4:

 

tdgeek:

 

MikeB4:

 

@tdgeek  So protesting oil/gas prospecting at a company's property that is doing oil/gas prospecting is irrelevant? where should they protest Toy World? actually I am not playing this pointless game.

 

 

Their exploration is legal. The Govt has ceased new permits, existing are legal. If we wish to protest current legal exploration you need to take that up with the Govt. Its not a pointless game its a fact. You are protesting the wrong people, you need to take that up with the lawmakers, protest them

 

 

 

 

Don't confuse legal with being right.

 

 

Shall we ban gas use right now? That would be far better than protesting legal exploration as determined by this climate change friendly Government. When we can transition off gas it will be banned, but there is too much dont do this dont do that, that doesn't actually cease emissions right now. There is a lot that could be done quick term, and if cutting gas use off in NZ is the right thing to do, then lets do it. Not in 2050. Protesting exploration as has happened will not cease exploration, so why dont these groups go ofter something they can achieve? Such as banning gas use in NZ in 2020. Pass a law now, it takes effect 2020. That WILL achieve emissions reduction and now not in 32 years time. Thats worth protesting for. 


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  #2368911 5-Dec-2019 17:12
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

 

 

Shall we ban gas use right now? That would be far better than protesting legal exploration as determined by this climate change friendly Government. When we can transition off gas it will be banned, but there is too much dont do this dont do that, that doesn't actually cease emissions right now. There is a lot that could be done quick term, and if cutting gas use off in NZ is the right thing to do, then lets do it. Not in 2050. Protesting exploration as has happened will not cease exploration, so why dont these groups go ofter something they can achieve? Such as banning gas use in NZ in 2020. Pass a law now, it takes effect 2020. That WILL achieve emissions reduction and now not in 32 years time. Thats worth protesting for. 

 

 

 

 

Protest draws attention and brings about change for example, the wrongs of Bastion Point, The Springbok tour, Vietnam War, LGBT rights etc etc etc. As i said earlier I am exiting this as I get headaches from brick walls.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 




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  #2368921 5-Dec-2019 17:31
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Rikkitic:

 

They act like kids prepared to chain themselves to masts at the cost of considerable inconvenience and discomfort. You try it some time. It gets cold very fast if the weather isn't kind. No fun if you feel a need to use the toilet. No fun just being tied to the same place for an extended period. Disparage them and their motives all you like, but it takes commitment and courage to do something like this. Putting yourself on the line is not something to be sniffed at.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't try it I am not that stupid.





Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding : Ice cream man , Ice cream man


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  #2368969 5-Dec-2019 18:01
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JaseNZ:

 

Rikkitic:

 

They act like kids prepared to chain themselves to masts at the cost of considerable inconvenience and discomfort. You try it some time. It gets cold very fast if the weather isn't kind. No fun if you feel a need to use the toilet. No fun just being tied to the same place for an extended period. Disparage them and their motives all you like, but it takes commitment and courage to do something like this. Putting yourself on the line is not something to be sniffed at.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't try it I am not that stupid.

 

 

I have no issues with protests. When it becomes silly though, its out the window of credibility. As far as the topic is concerned, if I had an issue with road safety, I'd go to the Police or the Government, not Holden.


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  #2368973 5-Dec-2019 18:11
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tdgeek:

 

I have no issues with protests. When it becomes silly though, its out the window of credibility. As far as the topic is concerned, if I had an issue with road safety, I'd go to the Police or the Government, not Holden.

 

 

Your point makes sense if you are actually trying to improve road safety, but that is not what these people are doing. They know actions like this won't have any direct result. The point of them is just to attract attention as part of a long-term campaign to change public attitudes. The choice of target is symbolic. It is intended to make a point. It doesn't have to make practical sense.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2369000 5-Dec-2019 18:51
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Rikkitic:

 

tdgeek:

 

I have no issues with protests. When it becomes silly though, its out the window of credibility. As far as the topic is concerned, if I had an issue with road safety, I'd go to the Police or the Government, not Holden.

 

 

Your point makes sense if you are actually trying to improve road safety, but that is not what these people are doing. They know actions like this won't have any direct result. The point of them is just to attract attention as part of a long-term campaign to change public attitudes. The choice of target is symbolic. It is intended to make a point. It doesn't have to make practical sense.

 

 

 

 

Climate Change being what it is, I feel that all of us have more then enough exposure to the effects of emissions. Stunts dont help that. Stunts that wont stop that ship from exploring wont help. If the protests were aimed at the current Government, that's where they need to go. More protest and less stunts will help. 

 

If we want to cease one form of emissions, we cannot get gung ho and just ban it. We can't ban steak and dairy tomorrow, or gas, or petrol. The emphasis and protests need to accelerate the weaning period. Steak and dairy alternatives, gas alternatives, petrol alternatives. The latter is actually in play, EV's. The target should be getting EVs here NOW. Then you can start taxing petrol as there is an alternative, you aren't using it, we will tax you to fund other Climate Change initiatives. With gas, we use gas for heating and cooking. Lets protest to get alternatives in place so we can ban it. We may find that we need gas to replace coal used for power generation. Thats a plus. Subsidies to help me replace my gas hob, stuff like that. Then we can ban gas and exploration of it as we protested to accelerate the alternative to using it, now we dont use it.

 

Mike was correct when he said legal isn't the same as right. The right thing to do today is to ban exploration and use, but you cant do that today. So legal is fine, for now. The right thing to do is to send the signals for the best things to allow removal, as Ive alluded to above.

 

And tell the Govt to stop setting timelines that are 30+ years away. Start sooner, finish sooner. 


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