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tdgeek
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  #2424380 20-Feb-2020 10:50
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MikeB4:

 

@tdgeek NZF and National will get savaged in the election and rightly so. They have both raised their middle fingers to the rules of Parliament and to the people Aotearoa. I do not believe the NZF vote will go to National and I sincerely hope it does not.

 

 

Thanks. If NZF votes tended to shift elsewhere from NZF or National, yes, your prediction would occur. I guess thats possible as NZF is an older demographic and could relate better to JA's empathy, and they may see Labour as a non aggressive party which is largely correct.

 

Interesting point.


GV27
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  #2424488 20-Feb-2020 13:44
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So you can't see a way in which Winston drags down Ardern with him, as she refuses to hold him to account for either the SFO investigation or the tailing of journalists?

 

A reminder: Winston has managed to ruin pretty much every government he's been part of. 


 
 
 
 


sir1963
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  #2424491 20-Feb-2020 13:54
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GV27:

 

So you can't see a way in which Winston drags down Ardern with him, as she refuses to hold him to account for either the SFO investigation or the tailing of journalists?

 

A reminder: Winston has managed to ruin pretty much every government he's been part of. 

 

 

 

 

Nope, because I would prefer Winston to be in government than Simon.

 

Simon is NOT a leader, he's a place holder.


tdgeek
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  #2424497 20-Feb-2020 13:57
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GV27:

 

So you can't see a way in which Winston drags down Ardern with him, as she refuses to hold him to account for either the SFO investigation or the tailing of journalists?

 

A reminder: Winston has managed to ruin pretty much every government he's been part of. 

 

 

No. Two reasons. He isnt implicated on the SFO investigation, thats innocent until proven guilty. he was suspended or whatever Under Clark, and cleared. Donations are a problem, its outdated everyone knows that, and it needs to be fixed. So you would probably oust Peters then 6 months later the updated donation rules make NZFF innocent

 

My opinion is , your distaste for Peters, and that he cost National a win, is clouding your opinion. Bridges who was aware of the 100k donation, we know that, is squeaky clean, legal;ly and morally. Yet Peters isnt, and they have nt even charged anyone yet. With respect it all seems a bit biased


tdgeek
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  #2424500 20-Feb-2020 14:02
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sir1963:

 

GV27:

 

So you can't see a way in which Winston drags down Ardern with him, as she refuses to hold him to account for either the SFO investigation or the tailing of journalists?

 

A reminder: Winston has managed to ruin pretty much every government he's been part of. 

 

 

 

 

Nope, because I would prefer Winston to be in government than Simon.

 

Simon is NOT a leader, he's a place holder.

 

 

Yes, Peters may be a rat bag when you get on the wrong side of him, but his voters love him, and he's not a deviant. If you heard a Peters secret tape it will be about fishing and effing journo's. It wont be full of racist and lowlife comments, etc etc, that Bridges was. Thats it in a nutshell. he is a person everyone loves to hate, but that's a mostly a bit overrated


MikeB4
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  #2424542 20-Feb-2020 14:09
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If Jacinda Ardern were to act against Peters now it will bring about an early election. In that scenario I see Labour gaining a lot of support. She may decide to ride it out to see what the SFO comes up with or she may wait until closer to the election date dump NZF and try and govern as a minority government. Every scenario in my very humble opinion has a Labour/NZ green coalition coming out on top and the train wrecks of NZF and National in the knackers yard. 

 

I also muse over the notion that maybe National is past its use by date and what Aotearoa needs is a new Centre right party.


tdgeek
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  #2424543 20-Feb-2020 14:16
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MikeB4:

 



 

I also muse over the notion that maybe National is past its use by date and what Aotearoa needs is a new Centre right party.

 

 

I think a top three refresh and give a damn about climate change would work wonders. The latter point they are 20 years behind everyone else. I feel the lack of eco and green awareness will bite them, they are out of sync with the real world


 
 
 
 


GV27
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  #2424550 20-Feb-2020 14:28
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tdgeek:

 

My opinion is , your distaste for Peters, and that he cost National a win, is clouding your opinion. Bridges who was aware of the 100k donation, we know that, is squeaky clean, legal;ly and morally. Yet Peters isnt, and they have nt even charged anyone yet. With respect it all seems a bit biased

 

 

Winston not choosing National is probably the best thing that even happened to it, second only to him leaving it. 

 

I can appreciate it seems bias, but all I'm asking for the same amount of energy and scrutiny to be put into NZ First actively tailing journalists that you are throwing the Bridges phone call, remembering that Winston as Deputy PM is literally held to a higher standard than the Leader of the Opposition is by virtue of having to follow the cabinet manual.

 

If you want my honest opinion: I'm seeing a lot of people here looking the other way when Winston does something, even the exact same things that National did and were roasted for, just because reprimanding him to the standard people want to hold the Nats to in opposition would mean bringing down a Labour government.


sir1963
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  #2424551 20-Feb-2020 14:36
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

My opinion is , your distaste for Peters, and that he cost National a win, is clouding your opinion. Bridges who was aware of the 100k donation, we know that, is squeaky clean, legal;ly and morally. Yet Peters isnt, and they have nt even charged anyone yet. With respect it all seems a bit biased

 

 

Winston not choosing National is probably the best thing that even happened to it, second only to him leaving it. 

 

I can appreciate it seems bias, but all I'm asking for the same amount of energy and scrutiny to be put into NZ First actively tailing journalists that you are throwing the Bridges phone call, remembering that Winston as Deputy PM is literally held to a higher standard than the Leader of the Opposition is by virtue of having to follow the cabinet manual.

 

If you want my honest opinion: I'm seeing a lot of people here looking the other way when Winston does something, even the exact same things that National did and were roasted for, just because reprimanding him to the standard people want to hold the Nats to in opposition would mean bringing down a Labour government.

 

 

Its not just that you think Winston must be held to a higher standard, you are also implying that Simon Bridges must be held to a lower standard.

 

To me, this says he is unfit to lead our country. HE should be holding himself to that higher standard, he should be showing by example how he and his party would be expected to behave if they are in power. And he is not.

 

Bridges "privilege" to meet TeddyBoy in the philippines who has posted some very pro Nazi opinions is far far worse than anything Winston has done.

 

Likewise the information about Bridges effectively selling a place in Parliament to the Chinese is another huge red flag.


tdgeek
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  #2424555 20-Feb-2020 14:50
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

My opinion is , your distaste for Peters, and that he cost National a win, is clouding your opinion. Bridges who was aware of the 100k donation, we know that, is squeaky clean, legal;ly and morally. Yet Peters isnt, and they have nt even charged anyone yet. With respect it all seems a bit biased

 

 

Winston not choosing National is probably the best thing that even happened to it, second only to him leaving it. 

 

I can appreciate it seems bias, but all I'm asking for the same amount of energy and scrutiny to be put into NZ First actively tailing journalists that you are throwing the Bridges phone call, remembering that Winston as Deputy PM is literally held to a higher standard than the Leader of the Opposition is by virtue of having to follow the cabinet manual.

 

If you want my honest opinion: I'm seeing a lot of people here looking the other way when Winston does something, even the exact same things that National did and were roasted for, just because reprimanding him to the standard people want to hold the Nats to in opposition would mean bringing down a Labour government.

 

 

I can understand that. Me, I feel both are complicit with the donation fraud, you can't tell me they had no idea. If Peters get charged, bring in the cabinet manual. The covert photos of journo's going after Peters is no more then the many occasional dramas that go on here. And Simon is squeaky clean, thats how I see it. It does feel though that Peters is labelled, but Bridges can walk through gorse and never get scratched.


GV27
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  #2424758 21-Feb-2020 08:02
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tdgeek:

 

I can understand that. Me, I feel both are complicit with the donation fraud, you can't tell me they had no idea. If Peters get charged, bring in the cabinet manual. The covert photos of journo's going after Peters is no more then the many occasional dramas that go on here. And Simon is squeaky clean, thats how I see it. It does feel though that Peters is labelled, but Bridges can walk through gorse and never get scratched.

 

 

I wonder if the feeling that Bridges is temporary has meant people are less likely to really care? Like if you assume he'll be gone at some point, why bother getting angry about?

 

He has stuck around far longer than anyone, left or right, probably expected.

 

You could argue similar with Peters, I guess. There's been so many donation issues with NZ First over the year that what would be a scandal in other parties is just considered par for the course.

 

Ultimately I feel like no one has really won out of this as we have had relatively little in the way of achievement from the government on their policies. However the headlines are so wrapped in scandal, we don't get much time for meaningful accountability. 


GV27
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  #2424760 21-Feb-2020 08:06
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sir1963:

 

Its not just that you think Winston must be held to a higher standard, you are also implying that Simon Bridges must be held to a lower standard.

 

 

I'm not saying this because I think Bridges should get a free pass - he's subject to the rules in the cabinet manual and Bridges isn't. Those rules set some pretty high expectations of ministers. 

 

Bridges, by virtue of being an opposition MP, isn't bound by those same rules. 

 

There's no implying or hiding behind anything here - those are just basic facts. And PM Adern is responsible for ensuring her ministers meet those standards. 

 

 

 

However, if you are asking me whether I think Bridges would also meet those higher standards after his phone call comments, I would say he would not. 

 

 


tdgeek
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  #2424762 21-Feb-2020 08:10
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

I can understand that. Me, I feel both are complicit with the donation fraud, you can't tell me they had no idea. If Peters get charged, bring in the cabinet manual. The covert photos of journo's going after Peters is no more then the many occasional dramas that go on here. And Simon is squeaky clean, thats how I see it. It does feel though that Peters is labelled, but Bridges can walk through gorse and never get scratched.

 

 

I wonder if the feeling that Bridges is temporary has meant people are less likely to really care? Like if you assume he'll be gone at some point, why bother getting angry about?

 

He has stuck around far longer than anyone, left or right, probably expected.

 

You could argue similar with Peters, I guess. There's been so many donation issues with NZ First over the year that what would be a scandal in other parties is just considered par for the course.

 

Ultimately I feel like no one has really won out of this as we have had relatively little in the way of achievement from the government on their policies. However the headlines are so wrapped in scandal, we don't get much time for meaningful accountability. 

 

 

Does NZF have multiple donation cases? So there are how many investigations involved. I feel with the National donation scandal, which unlike NZF has resulted in criminal charges being made, they have used JLR being sacked as the way to brush it under the table. But he was an MP when it occured and the leader was aware of the donation


tdgeek
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  #2424765 21-Feb-2020 08:18
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

I can understand that. Me, I feel both are complicit with the donation fraud, you can't tell me they had no idea. If Peters get charged, bring in the cabinet manual. The covert photos of journo's going after Peters is no more then the many occasional dramas that go on here. And Simon is squeaky clean, thats how I see it. It does feel though that Peters is labelled, but Bridges can walk through gorse and never get scratched.

 

 

I wonder if the feeling that Bridges is temporary has meant people are less likely to really care? Like if you assume he'll be gone at some point, why bother getting angry about?

 

He has stuck around far longer than anyone, left or right, probably expected.

 

You could argue similar with Peters, I guess. There's been so many donation issues with NZ First over the year that what would be a scandal in other parties is just considered par for the course.

 

Ultimately I feel like no one has really won out of this as we have had relatively little in the way of achievement from the government on their policies. However the headlines are so wrapped in scandal, we don't get much time for meaningful accountability. 

 

 

I dont see the daily headlines being all about the donation issues at all. The Coalition has pottered away with stuff as I see it. National there would be no stuff as its market driven let the country run itself, that was my beef and why I changed my vote. Id be quite happy of they get in, as for once they will have to have policies. yes, policies that they will have to implement. Every single one, and on time, such is the demands of NZ voters. The ones I like so far are tax cuts as there is plenty of cash that isnt required elsewhere, and allowing foreign non resident house buyers as we have no housing crisis. Both of these will suit me 


shk292
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  #2427670 26-Feb-2020 18:18
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Has there ever been an NZ politician so pompous and petty as Shane Jones?  There is a man whose love of himself knows no bounds

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119823971/infrastructure-minister-shane-jones-uninvites-bit-player-simon-bridges-from-infrastructure-conference


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