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134 posts

Master Geek


# 261574 4-Dec-2019 14:40
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Hi all,

 

Just wondering what the latest is with abortion reform in New Zealand? I know the govt are working to make it legal and able to be done up to 20 weeks, but as I understand it is still going through parliamentary processes. With Marijuana use and assisted suicide being decided on referendum next year I was curious how abortion reform was also tracking and when we may see the final vote on that?


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1567 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2370011 7-Dec-2019 11:24
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Probably not something that will go through under urgency and not something that will be voted on. 




134 posts

Master Geek


  # 2370038 7-Dec-2019 13:23
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GV27:

Probably not something that will go through under urgency and not something that will be voted on. 



All laws are voted on thats how parliament works. Just checked the parliament website and have seen this is with a select committee which will produce results in Febuary

 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek


  # 2370390 8-Dec-2019 10:14
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David321:
GV27:

 

Probably not something that will go through under urgency and not something that will be voted on. 

 



All laws are voted on thats how parliament works. Just checked the parliament website and have seen this is with a select committee which will produce results in Febuary

 

Should have been clearer, I meant at a referendum. 


5434 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2376853 17-Dec-2019 11:09
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GV27:

 

David321:
GV27:

 

Probably not something that will go through under urgency and not something that will be voted on. 

 



All laws are voted on thats how parliament works. Just checked the parliament website and have seen this is with a select committee which will produce results in Febuary

 

Should have been clearer, I meant at a referendum. 

 

 

Can you imagine if their was a referendum on abortion?  In today's social media driven world it would go toxic fast.





Mike



134 posts

Master Geek


  # 2376920 17-Dec-2019 12:15
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MikeAqua:

 

GV27:

 

David321:
GV27:

 

Probably not something that will go through under urgency and not something that will be voted on. 

 



All laws are voted on thats how parliament works. Just checked the parliament website and have seen this is with a select committee which will produce results in Febuary

 

Should have been clearer, I meant at a referendum. 

 

 

Can you imagine if their was a referendum on abortion?  In today's social media driven world it would go toxic fast.

 

 

 

 

It would be interesting to see what that nutter who runs Family First spews out as propaganda, think he is already having a meltdown about the two referendums next year. 


5434 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2377033 17-Dec-2019 13:58
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David321:

 

MikeAqua:

 

Can you imagine if their was a referendum on abortion?  In today's social media driven world it would go toxic fast.

 

 

It would be interesting to see what that nutter who runs Family First spews out as propaganda, think he is already having a meltdown about the two referendums next year. 

 

 

There are some very hardnosed views on both sides of that issue, I think truth and reason would be the first casualties of that war.





Mike

1567 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2377055 17-Dec-2019 14:27
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MikeAqua:

 

There are some very hardnosed views on both sides of that issue, I think truth and reason would be the first casualties of that war.

 

 

Yup. Part of electing MPs is for them to make decisions on stuff. A prolonged, toxic fundamentalist battleground referendum is not in New Zealand's best interests.


 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek

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  # 2377499 18-Dec-2019 09:47
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GV27:

MikeAqua:


There are some very hardnosed views on both sides of that issue, I think truth and reason would be the first casualties of that war.



Yup. Part of electing MPs is for them to make decisions on stuff. A prolonged, toxic fundamentalist battleground referendum is not in New Zealand's best interests.



You seem to indicate that in your opinion that we should not have this foundation of democracy. That astounds me and worries me.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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Uber Geek


  # 2377660 18-Dec-2019 12:16
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MikeB4: 

 

You seem to indicate that in your opinion that we should not have this foundation of democracy. That astounds me and worries me.

 

I didn't say "all referendums are bad and we should never have them".

 

What's the point of representatives if they aren't actually going to make decisions?

 

I don't believe the availability of a medical procedure is something that should warrant a referendum question.




134 posts

Master Geek


  # 2377663 18-Dec-2019 12:22
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It comes down to more than just that, it is a very complex and controversial topic with a basic yes or no answer being requested, in such cases I think a referendum is ideal to let the people decide, we are not asking them to write legislation, just answer a yes or no question. Should a women become a criminal for aborting a baby if she was raped? (just one example of how the current law is).


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Uber Geek


  # 2377680 18-Dec-2019 12:35
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David321:

 

Should a women become a criminal for aborting a baby if she was raped? (just one example of how the current law is).

 

 

I think the law as it is doesn't make the woman a criminal, but makes the doctor a criminal if they carry out the procedure without meeting criteria. The doctor's primary responsibility is for the health and welfare of their patient, most will "stretch the truth" to check the boxes and sign off.

 

The religious zealots attempt to shame the women - of course shaming women is pretty familiar ground for them over the course of history.

 

 


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  # 2377683 18-Dec-2019 12:40
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GV27:

MikeB4: 


You seem to indicate that in your opinion that we should not have this foundation of democracy. That astounds me and worries me.


I didn't say "all referendums are bad and we should never have them".


What's the point of representatives if they aren't actually going to make decisions?


I don't believe the availability of a medical procedure is something that should warrant a referendum question.



I strongly believe that abortion is a matter that is between a woman and her medical professional and no other. However while New Zealand continues to have strong involvement of church in state it is right that the government ask for a majority statement from the electorate to counter any church objections




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 




134 posts

Master Geek


  # 2377735 18-Dec-2019 12:55
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Fred99:

David321:


Should a women become a criminal for aborting a baby if she was raped? (just one example of how the current law is).



I think the law as it is doesn't make the woman a criminal, but makes the doctor a criminal if they carry out the procedure without meeting criteria. The doctor's primary responsibility is for the health and welfare of their patient, most will "stretch the truth" to check the boxes and sign off.


The religious zealots attempt to shame the women - of course shaming women is pretty familiar ground for them over the course of history.


 



Yes you are more than likely right about that, National party have kept the status quo on anything progressive if it goes against their religious beliefs, look at how they voted when it came to gay marriage and look at their opposition to the abortion, euthanasia, marijuana, and assisted suicide, all because it is against their Christian views but the majority of NZ are not Christian. I have a very christian friend who is having a meltdown any time one of these topics comes up in the news, its very amusing.

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Uber Geek


  # 2377747 18-Dec-2019 13:07
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David321:

 

It is a very complex and controversial topic 

 

Controversial? Yes. Complex? No. I personally believe that a woman at an individual level has more rights to decide what goes with her body than the entire electorate. 




134 posts

Master Geek


  # 2377778 18-Dec-2019 13:40
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GV27:

David321:


It is a very complex and controversial topic 


Controversial? Yes. Complex? No. I personally believe that a woman at an individual level has more rights to decide what goes with her body than the entire electorate. 



Agreed, and I am sure this will be reflected in next years referendum.

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