Jacinda Ardern sued over lockdown

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Handle9

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#2487357 20-May-2020 19:16

tdgeek:

Handle9:

Government ministers are now refusing to attend hearings of the epidemic response committee under the guise that as select committees are now sitting they are redundant.

If the committee is redundant why has it not been disestablished? Politics as usual is well and truly back in operation on both sides of the house.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121570573/coronavirus-prime-minister-defends-letter-ordering-ministers-and-officials-not-to-appear-before-covid-select-committee

The ERC was a joke. It was there to provide transparency and accountability but it was largely a joke, purely partisan. As we have seen, despite the vast criticism, the strategy to combat the virus has been successful. Do we need to run this "committee" forever? Can you imagine National, facing a crisis, empowering the opposing party for accountability? :-) As we can plainly see the Covid-19 committee is redundant. Thats because the Govt ran L4, L3 and L2, not L4 for 5 minutes then L1, which is plainly the other option. Health comes first, so you can then run the economy. Look elsewhere to see what happened.

The ERC was a joke and purely partisan? What a load of BS. It played a crucial role in improving the governments response. Issues like the dire state of contact tracing and the way the MOH were handling (or not) compassionate considerations were confirmed by the committee and, in some cases, the government acted on what was revealed.

Labour didn't "empower" the committee, it was "empowered" by the house. In other crisises the house continued with select committees and question time. This oversight is crucial as otherwise governments of all kinds do not act in a way consistent with the PR spin.

As I wrote above if it is no longer required then it should be disbanded.

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Handle9

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#2487365 20-May-2020 19:36

Rikkitic:

As far as I know, no-one in the coalition has ever cosied up to Filipino neo-fascist politicians. I have never met Simon Bridges, but my dislike of him is personal.

OK but how is that relevant to what networkn wrote?

Rikkitic

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#2487367 20-May-2020 19:44

Handle9:

Rikkitic:

As far as I know, no-one in the coalition has ever cosied up to Filipino neo-fascist politicians. I have never met Simon Bridges, but my dislike of him is personal.

OK but how is that relevant to what networkn wrote?

@networkn is trying to shift the focus Trump-fashion by claiming the government did it too, with the implication that this somehow makes a difference to Bridges' trustworthiness. It doesn't. Simon Bridges is an unpleasant human being regardless of what the government does or doesn't do.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

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#2487418 20-May-2020 21:58

Rikkitic:

@networkn is trying to shift the focus Trump-fashion by claiming the government did it too, with the implication that this somehow makes a difference to Bridges' trustworthiness. It doesn't. Simon Bridges is an unpleasant human being regardless of what the government does or doesn't do.

No, networkn was simply pointing out that it's silly to point fingers that National is untrustworthy for a particular behaviour whilst failing to mention the exact same behaviour was exhibited by Labour.

You probably don't want to start a competition around who is more Trump-like in my opinion. After all, who does Labours "dismiss, don't discuss" patterns seem like?

In my opinion, these type of comparisons are the fastest way to derail a discussion. There are certainly no shortage of comparisons that *could* be made.

tdgeek

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#2487479 21-May-2020 06:32

Handle9:

The ERC was a joke and purely partisan? What a load of BS. It played a crucial role in improving the governments response. Issues like the dire state of contact tracing and the way the MOH were handling (or not) compassionate considerations were confirmed by the committee and, in some cases, the government acted on what was revealed.

Labour didn't "empower" the committee, it was "empowered" by the house. In other crisises the house continued with select committees and question time. This oversight is crucial as otherwise governments of all kinds do not act in a way consistent with the PR spin.

As I wrote above if it is no longer required then it should be disbanded.

I watched a number of them, I have no issue with accountability, but I stand by my comments that it was useful for bagging, there is a difference between point scoring and accountability. Particularly when the pandemic plan and the capability when needed wasn't adequate in this time when it was needed. Perhaps the capability of a 100 year event should have been in place already? Hard to justify that in the past. The end result is what we have done has worked

MikeAqua

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#2488701 21-May-2020 13:28

Fred99:

I don't think they can. They're drowning in debt (relative to GDP), can't borrow, the infrastructure is stuffed, they're preyed on by ("western") nations to invest and extract resources for a pittance in royalties (and bribes), and if using local labour pay peanuts. Health of the populations is terrible. Empowerment of women (and religious BS) is an issue, but there's probably an instinctive survival instinct in force - if many of your children can be expected to die before they reach adulthood - then have more children.
China knows this - that's why in 50 years they'll be ruling the planet - the way things are going on.

All those problems trace back to poor governance (especially corruption), oppression of women and subsequent over population. A key driver of over-population in the developing world is that people still value large families (or don't engage in family planning) but healthcare has actually improved survival rates significantly.

Mike

Rikkitic

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#2488704 21-May-2020 13:33

networkn:

No, networkn was simply pointing out that it's silly to point fingers that National is untrustworthy for a particular behaviour whilst failing to mention the exact same behaviour was exhibited by Labour.

You probably don't want to start a competition around who is more Trump-like in my opinion. After all, who does Labours "dismiss, don't discuss" patterns seem like?

In my opinion, these type of comparisons are the fastest way to derail a discussion. There are certainly no shortage of comparisons that *could* be made.

I was asked a question. I answered it.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeAqua

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#2488710 21-May-2020 13:39

networkn:

No, networkn was simply pointing out that it's silly to point fingers that National is untrustworthy for a particular behaviour whilst failing to mention the exact same behaviour was exhibited by Labour.

You probably don't want to start a competition around who is more Trump-like in my opinion. After all, who does Labours "dismiss, don't discuss" patterns seem like?

In my opinion, these type of comparisons are the fastest way to derail a discussion. There are certainly no shortage of comparisons that *could* be made.

Politicians often behave similarly across party lines. They whistle at different dogs and signal different virtues but the same broad techniques are used. People that can read/listen/view critically can see this. People enamoured with one political ideology often can't critically evaluate the party they support.

My personal view is politicians and political parties are all much of muchness. I can't think of any NZ politicians from my lifetime that I admire, or would trust enough to lend $20 to. I just vote for the party I think will interfere with my life to the smallest extent and do me the least financial harm.

Mike

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