NZ Election 2020

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#2521517 12-Jul-2020 18:26

Handle9:

I guess you're only allowed to be a partisan shill and a whiner if you support the government.

OK. I don't like that comment, but maybe I was a bit hasty referring to stupid morons as "partisan shills". With a few exceptions, most National MPs were not trying to undermine what the government was doing - even if some of their shills were, Hosking, Boag, etc.

Handle9

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#2521520 12-Jul-2020 18:35

Being partisan isn't a problem to me. I'm quite happy to be called partisan if it's accurate (most of the comments accusing me of this on here aren't). I can identify the partisan nature of most of the people in the thread. It's a politics thread and we have different frames of reference and views.

It's quite hilarious when people who are clearly partisan use this as an attack rather than actually tackling their ideas.

tdgeek

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#2521526 12-Jul-2020 18:44

Handle9:

Being partisan isn't a problem to me. I'm quite happy to be called partisan if it's accurate (most of the comments accusing me of this on here aren't). I can identify the partisan nature of most of the people in the thread. It's a politics thread and we have different frames of reference and views.

It's quite hilarious when people who are clearly partisan use this as an attack rather than actually tackling their ideas.

Every one is partisan. Someone may support something, genuinely. If it happens to be in line with what party they support, so while its genuine, it gets rolled as partisan. Ive got complaints over the party I currently support, it gets ignored. Complaints I have over the other side, get labelled. But what I do see for most is purely partisan. As it always was and as it always will be, for the 85 to 90% of us that vote the same every 3 years, as many I know, do.

Fred99

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#2521533 12-Jul-2020 18:57

Handle9:

I can identify the partisan nature of most of the people in the thread.

No. You merely think you can.

MurrayM

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#2521782 13-Jul-2020 10:20

GV27:

Rikkitic:

For the record, I do intend to vote in favour of legalisation but I do not happen to believe it is harmless, especially some of the modern stuff. I do believe that the harm of keeping it illegal is greater than the harm of allowing it with controls in place.

This is my view too - legal is least bad but the form it takes is the key, really. I'm also not super optimistic the gangs will disappear like people think they will either. They're commercial organisations - they'll adapt.

But I don't think we need to be ruining any more lives with criminal convictions for this sort of thing.

I think that weed is definitely a lot more harmful than many supporters want us to believe. I'd like to vote to legalise it as I don't think people should have criminal records simply because they possessed some years ago, but I have serious reservations about the outcome of legalising it.

Supporters say that it will free up the Police to fight real crime, but I don't think this will happen. If you read the proposed laws there will be a whole heap of new regulations around how much you're allowed to buy and possess per day, how many plants you're allowed to grow, age limits, the maximum strength you're allowed, where you're allowed to consume it, etc. Who is going to police all these new rules? Presumably the Police will be given the job, so if anything it sounds like they'll have a whole lot more to do!

Supporters also say that it will stop the gangs from selling it, but I don't think this will happen. With all the new regulations that will need to be adhered to, licenses that need to be obtained, GST that needs to be collected, etc the retail cost of weed will be a lot more than people are currently paying for it now. People that can't afford it, or simply don't want to pay three times the old price, will simply go back to their old suppliers (who don't have all the overheads of abiding by regulations, collecting GST, etc) and so the gangs will continue to sell weed.

So while I do think legalising weed is a good thing, I don't think it will solve a whole heap of problems that supporters are saying it will.

gzt

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#2521955 13-Jul-2020 11:24

MurrayM: If you read the proposed laws there will be a whole heap of new regulations around how much you're allowed to buy and possess per day, how many plants you're allowed to grow, age limits, the maximum strength you're allowed, where you're allowed to consume it, etc. Who is going to police all these new rules? Presumably the Police will be given the job, so if anything it sounds like they'll have a whole lot more to do!

Much of that applies to the outlets and is similar to liqour licensing laws. Overall I think this would be a better situation to the current situation where prosecution of users seems to depend more on the suburb they live in than any concerns about the actual use of the stuff.

Rikkitic

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#2522093 13-Jul-2020 13:57

One of the definitions of partisan is 'exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance' to a political party, person or idea. On that basis, I do not believe I am partisan. I do strongly believe in what I see as progressive policies, and I find it hard to imagine myself ever voting for National or any conservative party. But I don't attribute that to blindness, prejudice, or unreasoning allegiance. Mostly it is just because the people and policies on the left strike me as the lesser of evils.

I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney

Journeyman

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Ultimate Geek

#2522234 13-Jul-2020 15:46

New Conservative party's electoral campaign billboards defaced with swastikas

I have no love for the Conservatives, old or new. I have no idea about their policies and whether there is anything obscenely racist in there or not. But I don't approve of painting (stencilling, even!) swastikas on any Party's billboard. It's idiotic and essentially Godwins the political debate. It's hugely ironic to me that some miscreant would accuse a party of racism by going around painting a symbol of hatred and anti-semitism on things.

Handle9

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#2522237 13-Jul-2020 15:54

Rikkitic:

One of the definitions of partisan is 'exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance' to a political party, person or idea. On that basis, I do not believe I am partisan. I do strongly believe in what I see as progressive policies, and I find it hard to imagine myself ever voting for National or any conservative party. But I don't attribute that to blindness, prejudice, or unreasoning allegiance. Mostly it is just because the people and policies on the left strike me as the lesser of evils.

Lol. One of the other definitions is "a strong supporter of a party, cause, or person"

On that basis you are clearly partisan. You have described yourself as such towards Ardern.

Of course that is only a problem if it is a problem to you if you consider yourself without bias which, in every case, is patently absurd. Much like liberal was made a dirty word by the American right being partisan is seen as being wrong. That is crazy, it means you have strongly held beliefs.

Handle9

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#2522313 13-Jul-2020 16:58

The SFO has launched an investigation into donations to the Labour Party. That now makes 3 of the largest political parties, or their close associates, under investigation for fraud

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/serious-fraud-office-investigating-donations-to-labour