NZ Election 2020

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#2539598 12-Aug-2020 18:35

quickymart:

According to a new poll, Labour is on 52%, National 28%, ACT is on 5.9% (their best showing since 2003). The Greens are on 5.4% and NZ First 5.1% respectively.

This was all before the most recent lockdown though.

Interesting how this will play out. I got an alert that JC is complaining about the virus response, I dont need to read it, I know what it will say. Another governance will have had us out of L4 after 2 weeks, not 5 and the other levels shortened in the name of business. Australia bubble would have been ages ago. I know its difficult for an Opposition to respond, but they are playing with fire criticising a NZ response. Note, NZ, not Labour or the Govt. But National will get mileage, for sure, thats natural. The health and outbreak recovery factor will be pushed aside.

tdgeek

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#2539605 12-Aug-2020 18:42

GV27:

I am just staggered at how all over the place National is at the moment.

I've been happy to vote for them on occasion on the basis that they seemed like a firm hand on the tiller and had better representation of working professionals in their ranks when compared to others, but honestly I'm not even sure they're competent enough to run the National Party at the moment, let alone the country.

Despite what my posts say, Ive voted National more than any other party over the years. Bring back Simon and bring in a proper finance person. Not a Labour PR man and then a National PR man, and an author. Im sure he was a good PR man, and a good author, but we need a Finance person, an English or a Robertson or someone with finance nous. Not PG. The video that someone posted with Simon on Spinoff was a great watch. He is better than the requisite criticise everything that he went down, JC is doing the same, but worse.

Handle9

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#2539669 12-Aug-2020 19:14

GV27:

I am just staggered at how all over the place National is at the moment.

I've been happy to vote for them on occasion on the basis that they seemed like a firm hand on the tiller and had better representation of working professionals in their ranks when compared to others, but honestly I'm not even sure they're competent enough to run the National Party at the moment, let alone the country.

They are a train smash and grasping at straws. Their comms strategy is a joke. Brownlee introducing this conspiracy theory crap into mainstream politics is incredibly destructive.

The point of delaying the election is totally reasonable and should have been made in a few days. Instead the message is lost in the other nonsense and they look like idiots.

quickymart

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#2539767 12-Aug-2020 21:24

It's almost like Gerry is taking a page out of Trump's playbook. How long until he sees the coronavirus numbers and starts crying "fake news!"?

In any case, I was never going to vote for National anyway, and I know a fair few National voters who are completely switched off by Judith Collins that they may end up voting for ACT or something.

Bets that Winston will be out this time? I think if he doesn't return, I reckon he will probably leave politics for good - he is getting on a bit now (mind you, so is Joe Biden) and that would probably be the end of NZ First.

elpenguino

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#2539772 12-Aug-2020 21:30

I am dying to know why Winston has such a boner for the racing industry. The racing industry is dying so it's obviously falling out of favour with the public in general. The cheating certainly puts me off and there's so many better entertainment options that I've never been to the races.

He manages to slip out of any accusations of down right corruption - is it just a few above board campaign donations and a good hard working racing minister supporting his constituents?

quickymart

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#2539795 12-Aug-2020 22:23

A lot of elderly people like going to the races, and that makes up a lot of his core voting base. My family used to go there a lot in the 80s and 90s - but it's not like there were millions of entertainment options on the Coast back then.

nathan

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#2539801 12-Aug-2020 22:28

elpenguino:

I am dying to know why Winston has such a boner for the racing industry. The racing industry is dying so it's obviously falling out of favour with the public in general. The cheating certainly puts me off and there's so many better entertainment options that I've never been to the races.

He manages to slip out of any accusations of down right corruption - is it just a few above board campaign donations and a good hard working racing minister supporting his constituents?

follow the money - obviously its corporate donations, for favors and influence

PS cool how the overseas racing track building workers are considered essential to be allowed in

populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time

Fred99

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#2539860 13-Aug-2020 08:43

quickymart:

It's almost like Gerry is taking a page out of Trump's playbook. How long until he sees the coronavirus numbers and starts crying "fake news!"?

It's absolutely the same as Trump. Collins has also been sprung tweeting "fake news" from alt-right websites. She won't retract the fake news when criticised - but doubles down.

The accusations that the govt is "hiding" coronavirus data - without a shred of evidence that they are - is pretty low. But that's Brownlee for you. Bullying school kids in woodwork classes didn't give him enough satisfaction.

Also the continued attacks on Ardern for being involved in press releases and announcements re C-19 alert levels is - dumb. Ardern is our PM - that's what leaders should be doing - "leading" - especially when she's deferring to the experts on all technical matters.

Compare Brownlee post Chch Earthquake: Appoints partisan shills into positions of authority, when they get criticised, instead of addressing the criticism then turn the argument into attacks on the victims for being "greedy" or "buggerising around on facebook". When actual experts get involved, ignore them. When the high court rules against you - ignore the ruling or appeal. Lie to the country about how much it's costing them to "give the ungrateful people in Christchurch free paint jobs". When criticism of the organisation he set up mounts, then carry out "satisfaction surveys" - but exclude from the survey the ~40% who'd laid formal complaints from participating. Lie by saying "most people are satisfied".

They're a very nasty pair, orders of magnitude worse than any National Party leader/deputy in living memory - including Muldoon IMO.

GV27

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#2539947 13-Aug-2020 09:57

- I think the election should probably be moved, simply because it's hard to make a case for a fair campaign when the incumbents haven't even launched yet.

- I also understand why JuCo was miffed at not being 'consulted' or hadn't been given a briefing. That seems kind of poor tbh.

- I think Brownlee has done immense damage to the point Collins was trying to make by insinuating some sort of weird conspiracy was afoot.

Rikkitic

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#2539987 13-Aug-2020 10:48

Judith Collins is doing nothing to improve my opinion of her. Now she thinks the PM should not be fronting the Covid 19 media updates. Clearly she doesn't understand what the role of a leader is. The fact that Jacinda Ardern has been out there every time answering to the media is exactly what a leader should be doing. It commands attention to an essential matter and it provides reassurance to the public. I for one have closely followed her appearances and have been very glad for them. National cannot gain traction in the polls for a reason. Those in charge lack a basic understanding of what it takes to be a real leader.

I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney

networkn

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#2540000 13-Aug-2020 11:06

Long before it was raised by National, the way the messaging changed to mask-wearing, the warnings of a second wave and the entire focus toward preparing for a second wave seemed "off" to me after 100 days of no community transmission. Out and about with clients in that time, it was mentioned or discussed by them all more or less asking the same questions or drawing the conclusions. We also started getting significant increases in calls to ensure remote access was working etc.. I don't think you have to be a nutter to at least *wonder* if they knew of something to indicate the additional warnings that went out all of a sudden. If it's all a coincidence then at least the Government is on record of saying so. Asking the question isn't unreasonable in my opinion, it's clearly a question plenty of people had.

I think JC has every right to be unhappy she wasn't fully briefed.

I wasn't sure what they wanted to achieve with their commentary on the PM fronting briefings.

I feel it's entirely reasonable for the leader of the opposition to ask the Government to consider postponing the Election.

A lot of you seem to be unable to separate the behaviour from the people exhibiting it.

tdgeek

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#2540007 13-Aug-2020 11:23

A second wave or some CT was always stated. All along. As the "anniversary" grew near, they did mention it more often as a lot of media was celebrating this upcoming 100 days, that was occuring a couple of weeks ahead. Too much patting on the back going on, so its not surprising that they talked complacency over the last 2 to 3 weeks

I believe JC was advised of the CT event. She should be briefed if she is part of the fixit team, but she isnt

Postpone the election? Sure, no one said otherwise. Do we put AKL in 14 or 21 day lockdown before we know what we are dealing with? No. Its 3, assess after 3. Do we postpone the election when we dont know what we are dealing with? No. When we do, thats when that call is made. Beats me how we can make serious decisons before we know what we are dealing with. Right now there is one source, affected 3 of his family, and a close contact student. It may not go much wider or it will. Expect a decision on lockdown on Friday or weekend, that will decide the level of postponement

No conspiracy, its just evaluation

MurrayM

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#2540014 13-Aug-2020 11:30

Rikkitic:

Judith Collins is doing nothing to improve my opinion of her. Now she thinks the PM should not be fronting the Covid 19 media updates. Clearly she doesn't understand what the role of a leader is. The fact that Jacinda Ardern has been out there every time answering to the media is exactly what a leader should be doing. It commands attention to an essential matter and it provides reassurance to the public. I for one have closely followed her appearances and have been very glad for them. National cannot gain traction in the polls for a reason. Those in charge lack a basic understanding of what it takes to be a real leader.

I think this is a damned-if-she-does and damned-if-she-doesn't case. If Ardern fronts up then National say she's trying to grab the lime-light. If Ardern stays hidden and lets officials appear then she'll be blamed for not fronting up and trying to hide behind officials. Personally I think she's doing the right thing, we need to see our leaders at a time like this.

MurrayM

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#2540017 13-Aug-2020 11:33

tdgeek:

No conspiracy, its just evaluation

Exactly, you can't (and shouldn't) make good judgement calls that will significantly affect a huge number of people without having all the data. It takes time to gather that data.

networkn

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#2540018 13-Aug-2020 11:33

What does the anniversary have to do with anything? It's nothing other than a number. Face mask-wearing barely mentioned or second wave, barely mentioned, all of a sudden front-page news every single day. You can ask questions and it not be about insinuating a conspiracy.

I entirely disagree that the opposition leader shouldn't be fully briefed.

3 days of assessment is entirely reasonable, no-one I've seen is suggesting otherwise.

JA has already indicated she doesn't want to postpone the election.

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