NZ Election 2020

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Awrrr
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#2544008 18-Aug-2020 20:56

GV27:

The fact the 'hard and early' lie is still breathlessly reported as fact is pretty ridiculous, but at least there are fewer places to hide with things like Question Time happening again. Probably not a moment too soon tbh.

Happening because Ardern made it happen. She didn't have to.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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Handle9

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#2544009 18-Aug-2020 20:58

Rikkitic:
GV27:

The fact the 'hard and early' lie is still breathlessly reported as fact is pretty ridiculous, but at least there are fewer places to hide with things like Question Time happening again. Probably not a moment too soon tbh.

Happening because Ardern made it happen. She didn't have to.

She kinda did. If she hadn't then losing confidence in the house was a real possibility.

Fred99

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#2544010 18-Aug-2020 21:01

Handle9:

If the opposition had been marginally competent the media would have focussed on the border problems. Instead they wasted their energy on conspiracy theories, bitching about not being consulted and making up constitutional conventions. They made the story about them and not about the failings of the government.

I don't agree. The media coverage and public interest on the C-19 situation in NZ has been huge. You can see a reflection of that in the GZ forum, which mushroomed in size about 4x the rate of the next most popular thread (on Trump).

The news reporting has been IMO variable quality, but covered things pretty well (opinion pieces by idiots like Hosking etc not included - that's not news, just rants by a right-wing millionaire boomer).

Brownlee's attacking the media now. After spreading CT, that's predictable. He's a thoroughly nasty person.

DS9

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#2544011 18-Aug-2020 21:01

I used couple of days but it’s been longer then that there was the David Clark stuff and there where the escapees and among other things

We had 102 days of how Jacinda had defeated Covid and that's why Labour and Jacinda are riding high in the polls and yeah Clark was in the news a couple of times, but the media didn't pin him on Jacinda. Now Covid is back in the community, its not Jacinda's fault, that is the hypocrisy.

Now everything a National MP does sticks to the leader (no matter which one) and that is the bias, or at the very least shows the media kindness towards Jacinda directly.

John Key had a similar relationship with voters and wasn't tarnished by his MP's, but the media did try to make it stick and also used his kids (his boy for just being a young lad and daughter for her 'art').

The 'mainstream' media will always have a left wing bias, as teachers do because they get into that profession to make a difference (change) and that'll always be.

I aim to misbehave.

Hemi88

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#2544017 18-Aug-2020 21:15

DS9:
I used couple of days but it’s been longer then that there was the David Clark stuff and there where the escapees and among other things

We had 102 days of how Jacinda had defeated Covid and that's why Labour and Jacinda are riding high in the polls and yeah Clark was in the news a couple of times, but the media didn't pin him on Jacinda. Now Covid is back in the community, its not Jacinda's fault, that is the hypocrisy.

Now everything a National MP does sticks to the leader (no matter which one) and that is the bias, or at the very least shows the media kindness towards Jacinda directly.

John Key had a similar relationship with voters and wasn't tarnished by his MP's, but the media did try to make it stick and also used his kids (his boy for just being a young lad and daughter for her 'art').

The 'mainstream' media will always have a left wing bias, as teachers do because they get into that profession to make a difference (change) and that'll always be.

most of the news was saying how nz defeated Covid not the prime minister and with David clack there was weeks of asking if the prime minister would fire him and we’ve had days of the same questions about the border it been very clear of what the prime minister expected from moh at the border and that’s why the question of the media is directed at them

Fred99

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#2544019 18-Aug-2020 21:18

DS9:

We had 102 days of how Jacinda had defeated Covid and that's why Labour and Jacinda are riding high in the polls and yeah Clark was in the news a couple of times, but the media didn't pin him on Jacinda. Now Covid is back in the community, its not Jacinda's fault, that is the hypocrisy.

There were daily warnings that C-19 wasn't gone for good. You must have been living under a rock not to read or hear it.

And by the way - the 102 days Covid free were a huge achievement. At the time we were enjoying that state of bliss, the leader of the opposition was arguing that we should open the borders! Imagine that.

Fred99

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#2544020 18-Aug-2020 21:21

Hemi88: most of the news was saying how nz defeated Covid not the prime minister

QFT

Handle9

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#2544023 18-Aug-2020 21:24

DS9:
I used couple of days but it’s been longer then that there was the David Clark stuff and there where the escapees and among other things

We had 102 days of how Jacinda had defeated Covid and that's why Labour and Jacinda are riding high in the polls and yeah Clark was in the news a couple of times, but the media didn't pin him on Jacinda. Now Covid is back in the community, its not Jacinda's fault, that is the hypocrisy.

Now everything a National MP does sticks to the leader (no matter which one) and that is the bias, or at the very least shows the media kindness towards Jacinda directly.

John Key had a similar relationship with voters and wasn't tarnished by his MP's, but the media did try to make it stick and also used his kids (his boy for just being a young lad and daughter for her 'art').

The 'mainstream' media will always have a left wing bias, as teachers do because they get into that profession to make a difference (change) and that'll always be.

You of course neglected to mention that during that 108 days the political media was busy with

National rolling it's leader

National MPs leaking confidential patient documents

National MPs resigning

Nationals leader resigning

Nationals deputy leader retiring from Parliament

National electing it's 5th leader in 4 years

National having a sex pest for an MP

National leaking the affair of a minister.

Losers have to explain. National has been doing a lot of explaining.

Handle9

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#2544024 18-Aug-2020 21:26

Fred99:

Handle9:

If the opposition had been marginally competent the media would have focussed on the border problems. Instead they wasted their energy on conspiracy theories, bitching about not being consulted and making up constitutional conventions. They made the story about them and not about the failings of the government.

I don't agree. The media coverage and public interest on the C-19 situation in NZ has been huge. You can see a reflection of that in the GZ forum, which mushroomed in size about 4x the rate of the next most popular thread (on Trump).

The news reporting has been IMO variable quality, but covered things pretty well (opinion pieces by idiots like Hosking etc not included - that's not news, just rants by a right-wing millionaire boomer).

Brownlee's attacking the media now. After spreading CT, that's predictable. He's a thoroughly nasty person.

The health coverage has been intense but look at the political headlines the day after the announcement. They were largely abut Collins whinging about not being consulted, Brownlee going on a conspiracy rant and Collins making up constitutional conventions. Gross incompetence by the opposition.

Even if National hadn't said much the political journalists would have turned their attention to the government.

quickymart

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#2544045 18-Aug-2020 22:23

I thought ZB was fairly right-wing? Mike Hosking is, Leighton Smith was definitely more Breitbart-style (I'm glad he's not on the air anymore).

I can't determine what the Herald is - right wing, left wing or centre?

Handle9

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#2544051 18-Aug-2020 22:40

Pretty much all New Zealand political parties whinge about the "media" at some stage. The "media" doesn't really exist, even within different outlets you have different biases. Simon Wilson and Matthew Hooton both write for the Herald, Stuff has a fairly diverse range of voices etc.

The reaslity is the media are more interested in covering the personalities than the politics. Tova O'Brien is a prime example. She's just a sh*t stirrer, which very useful at putting politicians under pressure.

If you are whining about the way the New Zealand media is covering your political point of view then the problem is probably with you, not the "media".

GV27

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#2544101 19-Aug-2020 07:10

Fred99:

And by the way - the 102 days Covid free were a huge achievement. At the time we were enjoying that state of bliss, the leader of the opposition was arguing that we should open the borders! Imagine that.

The Prime Minister was also talking about opening up a Cook Islands bubble right up to the point we found community transmission again.

GV27

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#2544104 19-Aug-2020 07:26

Also, re: the media, I agree they have been absolutely right to focus on the sideshow that has been National's senior MPs, just as they did with Andrew Little and David Cunliffe, which some may not remember. They were equally grilled.

But I can also believe that they have also cut Labour a shedload of slack, and breathlessly reported about the Town Hall 'Reset' or the 'Year of Delivery' like they were some sort of heroic, reigns-taking exercise by the PM, but very poor at talking about what came of it - or rather, what didn't. I can only recall a smattering of journalists - maybe three? - talking about Light Rail in any real depth over their term - were it not for Stuff's Thomas Coughlan or the Interest.co.nz/Greater Auckland teams, it probably would have quietly disappeared.

There's been plenty to talk about for the last three years given the huge divergence between Labour's promises and what they delivered, and I would suggest the media hasn't always done that, and when it has, it's been framed as courageous Jacinda taking the bull by the horns, rather than the idea that they promised a bunch of stuff they had no competency or possibly even intention of delivering and the accountability that flows from that. So in some ways, I agree that there is a tendency to accept Labour's style without questioning the substance, and we're seeing that a bit now with Covid19.

But don't for a second think the media should look the other way while National implodes over the space of eight weeks. That's news. When you start holding them to a higher standard than you're prepared to hold the actual party in government... that's when you have a problem.

MikeAqua

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#2544184 19-Aug-2020 08:23

Fred99:

And by the way - the 102 days Covid free were a huge achievement.

Except that we weren't COVID free during all (?or any?) of that time. We had people with COVID regularly walking into the country off planes and were told that cases in MIQ somehow didn't count. It was only a matter of time until we had a community cluster.

The govt is desperate to be able trace the cluster to surface contamination of goods at Americold. In reality, if they are doing the usual testing (rtPCR) the best they will be able to do is detect presence or absence of a subset of the virus's RNA. They won't be able to determine viability. They won't be able to determine if workers contaminated goods or vice versa.

Mike

Fred99

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#2544245 19-Aug-2020 09:04

MikeAqua:

Fred99:

And by the way - the 102 days Covid free were a huge achievement.

Except that we weren't COVID free during all (?or any?) of that time. We had people with COVID regularly walking into the country off planes and were told that cases in MIQ somehow didn't count. It was only a matter of time until we had a community cluster.

The govt is desperate to be able trace the cluster to surface contamination of goods at Americold. In reality, if they are doing the usual testing (rtPCR) the best they will be able to do is detect presence or absence of a subset of the virus's RNA. They won't be able to determine viability. They won't be able to determine if workers contaminated goods or vice versa.

True about people with Covid arriving WRT to our "Covid Free" status. We never really were (or maybe for a few days only?)

I doubt the government wants to link the cluster to surface contamination at Americold, and it's true that if they find some viral RNA it's not proof of anything - as it doesn't and can't tell which direction of contamination/infection happened. They want to trace the outbreak, and so far they've failed to do so.
If transmission from food/packaging was confirmed, it's probably pretty bad news for NZ - a major exporter of chilled/frozen foods. People don't (IMO) really understand risk very well, so an almost infinitely low risk is all it may take to disrupt global food markets, facts won't matter, and so far the world's been pretty lucky WRT maintaining supply of food. A few facebook posts can change that.

Aus seem to be having similar problems to here. I was reading last night that a positive case was identified in NSW with a security guard working in quarantine getting infected. That's possibly inevitable - but it gets worse. The security company rosters staff around various sites - and the guard had been working shifts at public produce markets where thousands of people visit, and at a supermarket - as well as t he quarantine centre. The same report (in SMH) mentioned that nurses are rostered between quarantine/testing facilities and their "normal" jobs in the health system.

I believe that in NZ, staff at rest-homes work shifts in different facilities.

If true, this is sheer lunacy.

Edit: Here's the article in SMH - he worked at Flemington Markets and a court (not a supermarket).

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