NZ Election 2020

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#2549032 24-Aug-2020 19:56

Handle9:

Your logic, which I don't agree with at all, should be applied consistently or not at all.

Why should a government get a free pass after three years of screw ups?

Where did I say they get a free pass? Don't make things up. Its fine if practically every post you make is a downer on everything and everyone, but why not just say your opinion that disagrees with mine and elaborate why? I stated them as a new and inexperienced Govt. You offered the same for National. a new and inexperienced Govt.

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Handle9

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#2549039 24-Aug-2020 20:09

tdgeek:

Handle9:

Your logic, which I don't agree with at all, should be applied consistently or not at all.

Why should a government get a free pass after three years of screw ups?

Where did I say they get a free pass? Don't make things up. Its fine if practically every post you make is a downer on everything and everyone, but why not just say your opinion that disagrees with mine and elaborate why? I stated them as a new and inexperienced Govt. You offered the same for National. a new and inexperienced Govt.

I did post why I disagreed, it clearly went over your head.

If you don't like what I posted, bad luck.

dejadeadnz

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#2549042 24-Aug-2020 20:12

tdgeek:

Where did I say they get a free pass? Don't make things up. Its fine if practically every post you make is a downer on everything and everyone, but why not just say your opinion that disagrees with mine and elaborate why? I stated them as a new and inexperienced Govt. You offered the same for National. a new and inexperienced Govt.

But you are doing precisely what @Handle9 is (correctly) attributing to you - excusing the government's behaviour on the basis that the previous government is just as bad or worse. If everyone is just going to do that, it becomes an endless cycle of nihilism. At some point our regular bloggers (I am deliberately using this to represent the fact that your and another poster's regular "contributions" are just outpourings of your feelings, without limit regard for reason and logical consistency) need to decide whether they are interested in a discussion or whether you're just interested in shouting random feelings/thoughts.

Rikkitic:

I am a private citizen and my vote counts just as much as as yours, even if I don't shout as loudly.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Sorry but this is just ludicrous. You're being by far the most shouty here -- you're the one constantly expressing ludicrously (beyond evidence) support for particular politicians and the government, to the point of irrational entrenchment and making numbers up. If that's not shouty, I don't know what is. Your arguments about NZ being "best" had been objectively demolished by numbers, yet you kept going. If that's not shouty, what is?

Rikkitic

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#2549044 24-Aug-2020 20:16

dejadeadnz:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

If that's not shouty, what is?

A full line of hahaha in caps?

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Rikkitic

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#2549045 24-Aug-2020 20:20

Handle9:

Why should a government get a free pass after three years of screw ups?

Maybe because along with the things they did badly, there were some important ones they did very well?

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dejadeadnz

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#2549049 24-Aug-2020 20:27

Rikkitic:

A full line of hahaha in caps?

Because I am quite justifiably laughing at you for the inability to see any kind of reason and your continuing unjustified projections. I am not the one constantly posting that I am an "unabashed fan" of some politician (what's the relevance of that to anyone else? Again, a genuine discussion requires a mutual exchange of ideas based on tests and evidential bases available to all). I, unlike you, know what the word "best" means; unlike you, I am quite happy to logically defend my opinions and don't resort to the "It's just an opinion, I am entitled to it!" defence when backed into a corner by your own illogicality. Most of the recent exchanges has consisted of you digging yourself into holes and simply shouting your beliefs. Yet you go and accuse me of shouting.

Cool story.

tdgeek

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#2549050 24-Aug-2020 20:28

Handle9:

I did post why I disagreed, it clearly went over your head.

If you don't like what I posted, bad luck.

Droll as usual.

"As I said above the opposition is irrelevant when judging the performance of the government. Just because someone else is worse doesn't excuse incompetence."

Your opinion, thats fine, you disagree thats fine. We have one party for 9 years, vs this party for 3. Both inexperienced. The point is will the current Govt, should it remain for another two terms improve? Learn? National didnt learn. It was the usual dont spend look at our surplus.

But if you want to abise my post as if Im excusing one party for a poor first term because the other was the same thats stupid. One has ONLY had one term so far, the point is, will they learn and will they improve. But as usual, everything is a problem, everything is a drama. The fault with your logic is you find it difficult to compare a three term Govt with a one term Govt, and will, could, might this one term Govt have something to offer. But no, lets be picky and shallow.

Handle9

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#2549051 24-Aug-2020 20:28

Rikkitic:

Handle9:

Why should a government get a free pass after three years of screw ups?

Maybe because along with the things they did badly, there were some important ones they did very well?

They get to take credit for their successes. They get to take the blame for, or try and justify their screw ups. That's being accountable.

They don't get to take the credit for successes (eg ~100 days of COVID free) and make excuses (our policy was testing everyone working at the border, the ministry of health didn't follow our policy) for failures.

tdgeek

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#2549052 24-Aug-2020 20:34

dejadeadnz:

But you are doing precisely what @Handle9 is (correctly) attributing to you - excusing the government's behaviour on the basis that the previous government is just as bad or worse.

No. I was comparing the two poor first term performances, first term, with what might occur longer term if the current Govt remained in power. Could they remain the same as National and fail to deliver? Possibly. Could they benefit from experience and mistakes and grow? 1 term vs 1 term = poor. Poor 3 terms vs 1 poor term and 2 unknowns, thats the question. In any case more rhetoric and anger to follow I guess. thats the only reason you post. And you winder who is really biased here????

tdgeek

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#2549054 24-Aug-2020 20:36

Handle9:

They get to take credit for their successes. They get to take the blame for, or try and justify their screw ups. That's being accountable.

They don't get to take the credit for successes (eg ~100 days of COVID free) and make excuses (our policy was testing everyone working at the border, the ministry of health didn't follow our policy) for failures.

I doubt anyone here disagrees with that. Or are you assuming that anyone here that currently favours the current Govt is blind?

dejadeadnz

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#2549055 24-Aug-2020 20:37

tdgeek:

"As I said above the opposition is irrelevant when judging the performance of the government. Just because someone else is worse doesn't excuse incompetence."

Your opinion, thats fine, you disagree thats fine. We have one party for 9 years, vs this party for 3. Both inexperienced. The point is will the current Govt, should it remain for another two terms improve? Learn? National didnt learn. It was the usual dont spend look at our surplus.

But if you want to abise my post as if Im excusing one party for a poor first term because the other was the same thats stupid. One has ONLY had one term so far, the point is, will they learn and will they improve. But as usual, everything is a problem, everything is a drama. The fault with your logic is you find it difficult to compare a three term Govt with a one term Govt, and will, could, might this one term Govt have something to offer. But no, lets be picky and shallow.

Yawn. Any current government needs to be held to strong account for simply one reason and one reason alone. It has the most power to implement material changes in people's lives, good or bad, through actions and omissions. Holding it to account doesn't mean you want it gone or will vote for the opposition. It's about objectively evaluating its performance and pointing out facts about it. Again, if any government is simply able to constantly raise the "But the other lot were worse!" (whether it's true or not) as some kind of conclusory defence, it ceases to be governance by consent. Seeking to shut down criticisms by pulling out the "The other lot were worse!" line constantly is equally daft for the same reason.

Handle9

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#2549061 24-Aug-2020 20:44

tdgeek:

dejadeadnz:

But you are doing precisely what @Handle9 is (correctly) attributing to you - excusing the government's behaviour on the basis that the previous government is just as bad or worse.

No. I was comparing the two poor first term performances, first term, with what might occur longer term if the current Govt remained in power. Could they remain the same as National and fail to deliver? Possibly. Could they benefit from experience and mistakes and grow? 1 term vs 1 term = poor. Poor 3 terms vs 1 poor term and 2 unknowns, thats the question. In any case more rhetoric and anger to follow I guess. thats the only reason you post. And you winder who is really biased here????

The first term of the Key government was a failure because you said so? Have you actually go specific promised policies that weren't implemented? There is a fairly extensive catalogue for the current government.

Rikkitic

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#2549062 24-Aug-2020 20:44

dejadeadnz:

Rikkitic:

A full line of hahaha in caps?

Because I am quite justifiably laughing at you for the inability to see any kind of reason and your continuing unjustified projections. I am not the one constantly posting that I am an "unabashed fan" of some politician (what's the relevance of that to anyone else? Again, a genuine discussion requires a mutual exchange of ideas based on tests and evidential bases available to all). I, unlike you, know what the word "best" means; unlike you, I am quite happy to logically defend my opinions and don't resort to the "It's just an opinion, I am entitled to it!" defence when backed into a corner by your own illogicality. Most of the recent exchanges has consisted of you digging yourself into holes and simply shouting your beliefs. Yet you go and accuse me of shouting.

Cool story.

I post my opinion of the PM when discussing a relevant issue to make clear where my prejudices lie. That is perfectly normal disclaimer practice. As a lawyer, you should appreciate it.

I acknowledged my use of the term 'best' was incorrect in the context used. What more do you want? Find a better hammer to bash me with.

Quote dejadeadnz:

"or whether you're just interested in shouting random feelings/thoughts.

"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

Unquote

Is the above intended as an illustrative example? You shout quite a bit, and go on repeatedly about your superior abilities as you browbeat those you disagree with by repeatedly raking up your lawyerly qualifications.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

GV27

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#2549070 24-Aug-2020 20:51

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/experts-welcome-covid-19-lockdown-extension-but-warn-it-may-need-to-be-extended-again.html

"We may not have this completely under control and we may need a longer extension but for the time being I think the Government is managing that risk with this shorter extension," Hendy told Newshub.

Seems like the Govt is walking a pragmatic line on this one according to the experts. I don't think anyone will really observe social distancing or lockdown rules in Auckland so we have until the end of the week to get on top of this.

Rikkitic

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#2549072 24-Aug-2020 20:54

dejadeadnz:

Yawn. Any current government needs to be held to strong account for simply one reason and one reason alone. It has the most power to implement material changes in people's lives, good or bad, through actions and omissions. Holding it to account doesn't mean you want it gone or will vote for the opposition. It's about objectively evaluating its performance and pointing out facts about it. Again, if any government is simply able to constantly raise the "But the other lot were worse!" (whether it's true or not) as some kind of conclusory defence, it ceases to be governance by consent. Seeking to shut down criticisms by pulling out the "The other lot were worse!" line constantly is equally daft for the same reason.

Okay, I agree with this (apart from the attitude). Anyone who has actually bothered to read my posts would also see that I do not think everything this government has (not) done is wonderful. I have also said, as stated above, that the government's failings (holding it to account) do not mean I want it gone, or would vote for the opposition.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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