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  #2494571 29-May-2020 18:48
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Handle9:

The same people will be doing the same job but you expect a different result. How?

Twyford is responsible for Economic development, not Robertson. Robertson isn't sitting around looking for things to do. He is busy enough with finance.

Governments rely on big teams, the jobs are too big for one person to run a government alone.

 

How? Has the Govt been stellar? No. So will they be short sighted enough to rely on the PM and all will be good? No. If they are smart they will recognise their in experience showed. They would want to remedy that, assuming that they have learned. They pulled Twyford off Kiwibuild. If they are smart they will learn from past mistakes, that my basis

 

Robertson is busy with Finance. yes, Im sure he is. That doesn't mean for 60 hours a week he is adjusting Finance. Finance gets allocated. He and the PM will want to be sure their direction is being advanced. Both for the obvious reason that they want delivery, but also that they are well aware the public is watching. You can forgive a brand new team, inexperienced, but not forever. Everyone is well aware of that.

 

Big teams yes. The PM is like a good CEO. They do nothing, they just make sure the team down and the team down below that are performing. 

 

Your post seems to indicate that what happened from day one in this Govt will be repeated, that's fine. I put forward that they have learnt, and that any MPs that have not done well will be less involved, and that the PM and the Finance Minister are well aware of that. 

 

Thats my take, we can see how it pans out. 


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  #2496174 1-Jun-2020 16:26
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I think you are giving way too much credit where it simply isn't due. Kiwibuild didn't fail because of Twyford, it failed because it was a stupid policy, impossible to deliver let alone by the current Government. Twyford (and Ardern) made it worse by refusing to budge off the numbers even though a 10 year old could have worked out it wasn't going to happen. If they "learned" then they wouldn't have given Twyford other important roles like Economic Developmment (LOL) and AT Liason. He shouldn't be anywhere near those types of roles. It's a little like Kelvin Davis in charge of Tourism, yet despite the fact we are facing some of the worst situations around as relates to Tourism, crickets. Ardern should be in charge of tourism. How are we coming along with those billion trees? Maybe we could get some of our newly unemployed, or long term unemployed to help with that. No chance I'd guess. 

 

I'd suggest the chances of them being better in the second term is related to the fact they probably couldn't do much worse. Why anyone would trust them to though, is beyond me.

 

C19 will probably be their saving grace, since they can fall back on that for a while. If they can prop the economy up till after the election, it will also help.

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2496273 1-Jun-2020 17:58
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You missed out the other key contributing factor to Labours likely victory. National are a fairly typical first term opposition. They haven't presented any sort of attractive alternative and have also have questionable competence.

 

Bridges was a disaster and Muller has been fairly awful since taking over. There is pretty clearly a fair bit of internal dissent, as there was for most of Bridges regime. Until they get rid of the old muppets and get themselves united they aren't much of a chance.


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  #2496312 1-Jun-2020 22:03
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Personally, I think the Government has done quite well in the face of the coronavirus, compared to some other leaders (I'm looking at you, Mr Trump). I agree they haven't done a great job with 100% of everything they said they would - my big concern (as some on here will know) is housing is still far too expensive as there aren't enough properties available; I was hoping Kiwibuild would help but it hasn't seem to have done anything - however on the balance of what they've done they would win my vote this year. Either them or the Greens. National/Act would never get my vote, and I personally find Winston far too polarising.


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  #2496313 1-Jun-2020 22:09
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There's absolutely zero evidence that National will be better than this government, except in the eyes of the rabid National "fans". More importantly, on fundamental issues of personal integrity and character, many of National's key people are (and ought to be) unbearable to anyone with a semi-decent set of morals.

 

  • Bennett is someone who deliberately leaked someone's benefit history/situation to get at someone who was "attacking" her (I am not talking about Winston Peters; I am talking about the incident with a constituent a number of years back).
  • Judith Collins - well, does anyone really need to ask why?
  • Mark Mitchell - ex-mercenary/;"military contractor". Say no more
  • Simon Bridges - deliberately traveled around unnecessarily in person during level 4 for perceived political advantage and when caught lying just kept digging. And generally behaving like a total prat throughout his term as "leader. 

And National needs some actual ideas beyond trickle up economics, tax cuts, roads, and cutting "red tape" (i.e. anything that they don't like and don't benefit their mates). They've got as much chance of winning as Donald Trump finding some morals and integrity. Holding the views that I do doesn't require me to believe that this current government is wonderful or even doing a very good job (it's passable in my eyes). I just know it is/will be miles better than a festering pile of dog faeces that is the National party. The next Labour-led government will certainly be miles better if the world can be had the favour of Winston either losing his seat or dropping dead.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  #2496320 1-Jun-2020 22:54
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Well if the polls the other week were anything to go by, Labour would win all on their own and wouldn't need any support partners at all - from memory they would have gotten 76 seats? NZ first would be gone, as would Act, I believe, if not for Epsom (why do people keep voting for them there???)

 

Still, the election is some way away yet, and a lot can change between now and then.


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  #2496430 2-Jun-2020 07:18
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networkn:

 

I think you are giving way too much credit where it simply isn't due. Kiwibuild didn't fail because of Twyford, it failed because it was a stupid policy, impossible to deliver let alone by the current Government.

 

 

The concept of an affordable housing policy wasnt stupid. As Ive mentioned many times KB was unachievable, probably an element of attracting votes, which if true is bordering on devious

 

However, there should not have been a need to have an affordable housing policy in the first place


 
 
 
 


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  #2496436 2-Jun-2020 08:29
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networkn:

 

C19 will probably be their saving grace, since they can fall back on that for a while. If they can prop the economy up till after the election, it will also help.

 



 

Twyford was the ‘Minister for Blaming’ when the current government was appointed by Winston Peters. At least now it’s not going to be “because of the previous government’s mess” it will be “but covid19......”

 

I object to the assertion that anyone who doesn’t support the current group of professional protestors, lifelong politicians, SJWs, ex-unionists and eco-warriors must be “rabid National fans ....... unbearable to anyone with a semi-decent set of morals.”





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  #2496452 2-Jun-2020 09:06
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Dingbatt:

 

Twyford was the ‘Minister for Blaming’ when the current government was appointed by Winston Peters. At least now it’s not going to be “because of the previous government’s mess” it will be “but covid19......”

 

 

"Three long years of neglect" doesn't have the same ring to it, sadly.


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  #2496453 2-Jun-2020 09:09
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tdgeek:

 

networkn:

 

I think you are giving way too much credit where it simply isn't due. Kiwibuild didn't fail because of Twyford, it failed because it was a stupid policy, impossible to deliver let alone by the current Government.

 

 

The concept of an affordable housing policy wasnt stupid. As Ive mentioned many times KB was unachievable, probably an element of attracting votes, which if true is bordering on devious

 

However, there should not have been a need to have an affordable housing policy in the first place

 

 

Sure, a policy that was going to address that, not the worst idea in the world, but it wasn't that, nor was it ever going to be that. Neither was planting a billion trees going to be the climate change plan. Those type of promises indicates they didn't have a clue how to address both those things, despite being in opposition for 9 years and whining endlessly about every decision the National government ever made (the point I make simply to point out that almost always, opposition gets marked as opposing for the sake of it by the sitting Governments supporters).

 

Most countries in the world now have an "affordable" housing price problem, when I was in Italy quite a few years ago now, apartments with water running down the walls in Milan were over 1M Euro and protesters when I was in Berlin were on the streets with placards complaining about house affordability. There isn't a magic solution. Despite the fact many here seem to want to blame National for people on the street, I don't think that's the case, it's not an easy or simple thing to fix.


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  #2496455 2-Jun-2020 09:17
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What a week for him to have a MAGA hat in the office, eh?





 

 

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  #2496465 2-Jun-2020 09:33
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networkn:

 

 

 

Sure, a policy that was going to address that, not the worst idea in the world, but it wasn't that, nor was it ever going to be that. Neither was planting a billion trees going to be the climate change plan. Those type of promises indicates they didn't have a clue how to address both those things, despite being in opposition for 9 years and whining endlessly about every decision the National government ever made (the point I make simply to point out that almost always, opposition gets marked as opposing for the sake of it by the sitting Governments supporters).

 

Most countries in the world now have an "affordable" housing price problem, when I was in Italy quite a few years ago now, apartments with water running down the walls in Milan were over 1M Euro and protesters when I was in Berlin were on the streets with placards complaining about house affordability. There isn't a magic solution. Despite the fact many here seem to want to blame National for people on the street, I don't think that's the case, it's not an easy or simple thing to fix.

 

 

Ok, so as other countries have a housing affordability problem its ok for NZ to. So its a non issue now. Kiwibuild is thankfully over, so we are back on track with houses prices that are fine. It would have been quite helpful to limit overseas non residents buying them up at what was cheap prices even though for us they were too high. Its not fixable now, so those on both sides that complain about house prices need to button it I guess.


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  #2496511 2-Jun-2020 10:51
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tdgeek:

 

Ok, so as other countries have a housing affordability problem its ok for NZ to. So its a non issue now. Kiwibuild is thankfully over, so we are back on track with houses prices that are fine. It would have been quite helpful to limit overseas non residents buying them up at what was cheap prices even though for us they were too high. Its not fixable now, so those on both sides that complain about house prices need to button it I guess.

 

 

You could make this more of a discussion by being less sarcastic and twisting what I say.

 

Yes, it's an issue, the issue, and potential solutions have been discussed quite recently in these forums (and *many* times before), the solutions are non-palatable to most, the problem is non-palatable to most. What to do ? Given it's not been "solved" overseas, despite the variety of Governments and experts consulting on it, means it's simply not a magic wand fix.

 

I agree to stop non-residents buying would have helped, but that is one relatively small part of a bigger equation.

 

Kiwibuild was a fairy tale and the resources should have been spent on other things.

 

 


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  #2496512 2-Jun-2020 10:54
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networkn:

 

 

 

Yes, it's an issue, the issue, and potential solutions have been discussed quite recently in these forums (and *many* times before), the solutions are non-palatable to most, the problem is non-palatable to most. What to do ? Given it's not been "solved" overseas, despite the variety of Governments and experts consulting on it, means it's simply not a magic wand fix.

 

I agree to stop non-residents buying would have helped, but that is one relatively small part of a bigger equation.

 

Kiwibuild was a fairy tale and the resources should have been spent on other things.

 

 

 

 

Yes, Kiwibuild was a fairy tale, its now gone, lesson learned


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  #2496558 2-Jun-2020 11:08
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tdgeek:

 

Yes, Kiwibuild was a fairy tale, its now gone, lesson learned

 

 

Sorry, but this was a major policy platform and it was also a key attack platform to attack the National Party for "doing nothing" (which was untrue) about house prices when they were in opposition.

 

I can't write this off so easily. We have a consumer watchdog to prosecute retailers who engage in bait-and-switch tactics. I do not understand why this should suddenly be acceptable for parties seeking election.


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