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  #2508253 19-Jun-2020 16:12
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tehgerbil:

 

This person murdered an unarmed man, just doing their job to earn money. 

 

 

 

And somehow this was their fault if the vitriol spewing bigoted pieces of subhuman garbage are to be believed. I despise people sometimes. Things like this bring out the utter worse in humanity. 

 

 

 

 

What?  Where?


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  #2508255 19-Jun-2020 16:13
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frankv:

dejadeadnz:


If those numbers are good enough for you, feel free to go and enjoy that kind of policing. They aren't good enough for me or, I'd venture, the overwhelming number of normal NZers.



I never said they were good, or good enough for me. Just that it wasn't *routine* in America for cops to point a gun at people as you claimed. It's an out-of-the-ordinary event, which has to be reported in many jurisdictions.


 



If 1 in 7 draws a gun each month it is absolutely routine. If 1 in 7 employees at a business perform a task at least once a month then it's just business as usual.

 
 
 
 


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  #2508256 19-Jun-2020 16:13
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Lol. It's fairly predictable isn't it?

 

The fact its fairly predicable is probably an indication that quite a number of Kiwi's have the same opinion? 


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  #2508257 19-Jun-2020 16:17
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gmball:


Lol. It's fairly predictable isn't it?


The fact its fairly predicable is probably an indication that quite a number of Kiwi's have the same opinion? 



No it's an indication that a lot of people are ignorant and uninformed. I can't work out whether they are too lazy to become informed or ignore information that doesn't support their opinion. Probably a bit of both.

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  #2508258 19-Jun-2020 16:19
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No it's an indication that a lot of people are ignorant and uninformed. I can't work out whether they are too lazy to become informed or ignore information that doesn't support their opinion. Probably a bit of both.

 

 

 

All entitled to our own opinions I guess. 


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  #2508271 19-Jun-2020 16:47
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gmball:

 



No it's an indication that a lot of people are ignorant and uninformed. I can't work out whether they are too lazy to become informed or ignore information that doesn't support their opinion. Probably a bit of both.

 

All entitled to our own opinions I guess. 

 

 

It's pretty tiresome though.  It's been more than a decade since the last police killing in NZ - I think ACC records show that being a police officer carries less on the job risk than many other "ordinary" jobs, there's plenty of evidence that arming police to the back teeth or having the government kill their own citizens is counter-productive to achieving "law and order", but here we are.

 

Next guess for what coming up is that I'll be accused of being "on the criminals side", and that close to an election, dickhead politicians will be screaming "law and order" and promising draconian measures to target stereotypes of people - not crimes.

 

The elephant in the room - that this was probably a drug profit related crime, and that the harder we fight the war, the greater the profits, thus the more organised and dangerous the criminals will become - gets ignored.  So there'll be no solution.


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  #2508278 19-Jun-2020 17:02
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I'm guessing police are armed on a case by case basis. Everyday routine, tasers only. If doing a drug bust, it's up to the head policeman in charge whether the field officers can be equipped with guns. Heard of a case where police were doing a drug bust and were denied the use of guns by the person in charge. Depending on their level of criminality, I would be concerned that all I have against drug dealers (who may have guns) is a taser. Guessing game. 

Quick google tells me the that the top brass of NZ Police quietly stopped a bodycam trial in 2019. 


 
 
 
 


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  #2508279 19-Jun-2020 17:06
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Fred99:

 

It's pretty tiresome though.  It's been more than a decade since the last police killing in NZ - I think ACC records show that being a police officer carries less on the job risk than many other "ordinary" jobs, there's plenty of evidence that arming police to the back teeth or having the government kill their own citizens is counter-productive to achieving "law and order", but here we are.

 

 

Typically when it comes to these kinds of threads, the first one being accused of being pro-murderers and pro-crims is me the dirty, scumbag lawyer. So you will have do get in line 😅




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  #2508281 19-Jun-2020 17:11
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I thought most of them carried arms in the car's anyway is this not the case ??





Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding : Ice cream man , Ice cream man


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  #2508287 19-Jun-2020 17:15
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JaseNZ:

 

I thought most of them carried arms in the car's anyway is this not the case ??

 

 

If this is a response to my comment, then I guess they must be given the all clear before they can grab and use those weapons, unless a circumstance calls for immediate use.


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  #2508288 19-Jun-2020 17:17
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gmball:

 

 

Have you ever been inside a prison? Funnily enough, the last sentence of yours is actually rather accurate. And that might be the only thing in your post that was right. And tougher sentences have been proven for decades to have little general nor specific deterrent effects.

 

Here's my suggestion: find someone else to prattle on about.

 

 

I think what you'll find is I'm providing my opinion which is what these forums are for. If you don't like people sharing their views, look away. 

 

 

Opinions are fine, until you pepper made up facts on top of those, to incite furor - like "luxury prisons".

 

Do you have evidence prisons are luxury installations? Because that sounded like a factual claim, not an opinion.





 

 

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  #2508289 19-Jun-2020 17:17
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JaseNZ:

 

I thought most of them carried arms in the car's anyway is this not the case ??

 

 

A 'proportion' of the lock boxes will be filled at any time.

 

Remember the recent case when a crim stole a cop car and then found he had got a couple of glocks too.


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  #2508300 19-Jun-2020 17:35
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Opinions are fine, until you pepper made up facts on top of those, to incite furor - like "luxury prisons".


Do you have evidence prisons are luxury installations? Because that sounded like a factual claim, not an opinion.



I consider Sky Tv a luxury, and I know for fact that it available in prisons.

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  #2508309 19-Jun-2020 18:12
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Handle9:
gmball:

 

I don't agree with arming Police, but body cams yes! What I do agree with is much tougher sentencing for acts of murder like this. The offender in this case when caught, the sentence should be life imprisonment, without parole. 

 



Locking people up for longer means people get locked up for longer.

Draconian sentences hasn't made a blind bit of difference in the US or NZ.

 

The issue I think is more judges take an exceptionally soft stance on crime here in New Zealand, thanks (I presume) to other cases setting precedents? It just seems a race to the bottom.

 

An example - I know it's not relevant in this case - but this fulla fulla drove drunk and killed another human being. And he was sentence to home detention. I mean come-the-frick-on you take another human life and it's expected you'll be removed from society. 

Cases like this only fuel the 'LOCK THEM UP' brigade and frankly if you remove a human being from society due to your own selfish stupid actions you deserve to be removed from the population for a period of time. 
More and more however, they're given a slap on the wrist, told to be a good boy and left to their own devices.. 


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  #2508314 19-Jun-2020 18:19
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tehgerbil:

The issue I think is more judges take an exceptionally soft stance on crime here in New Zealand, thanks (I presume) to other cases setting precedents? It just seems a race to the bottom.


An example - I know it's not relevant in this case - but this fulla fulla drove drunk and killed another human being. And he was sentence to home detention. I mean come-the-frick-on you take another human life and it's expected you'll be removed from society. 

Cases like this only fuel the 'LOCK THEM UP' brigade and frankly if you remove a human being from society due to your own selfish stupid actions you deserve to be removed from the population for a period of time. 
More and more however, they're given a slap on the wrist, told to be a good boy and left to their own devices.. 



If they are "left to their own devices" and get a "slap on the hand" then why has the number of people in prison doubled in the last 20 years? Normalised by population there are 50% more people locked up than in 2000.

In the aggregate (rather than picking edge cases) New Zealand locks up a huge proportion of its population. How is that working out? There is no evidence that it works.

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