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BDFL - Memuneh
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  #2508570 20-Jun-2020 09:17
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All explained, carry on. 





 

 

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BDFL - Memuneh
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  #2508596 20-Jun-2020 10:16
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Removed the post before this as ad hominem.

 

 





 

 

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  #2508603 20-Jun-2020 10:35
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This was a traumatic event and I feel very sorry for any family members who said goodbye to this guy as he went off to work fully expecting to be sitting in front of the TV with him in the evening.

 

But I would never agree with routinely arming the police. 

 

I may be wrong but AFAIK the stats show that it is far safer to work as a policeman than

 

1. On a logging crew

 

2. On a building site

 

3 On a farm riding a quad bike

 

Arming the police is approaching the problem from the wrong direction. We should be concentrating on disarming the criminals.

 

 


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  #2508862 20-Jun-2020 16:22
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Fox News Herald beating the drum for armed police

 

They often make these rubbish op-ed pieces premium but not this way. Gotta start misleading the public! Guns so would have helped yesterday.

 

 


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  #2508968 20-Jun-2020 22:13
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freitasm:

 

I read the whole thread again and I don't see a comment saying police lives don't matter. The closest I saw that could be understood as such is the first comment saying some people use police lives matter arguments to increase calls for gun policing. Or is your post regarding something else?

 

 

I have to respectfully disagree.

 

When I read this following statement I read it as Police lives don't matter.

 

People need to guard against the disgusting law and order types trying to run a reductionist Blue Lives Matter campaign on the back of this kind of incident.

 

It says to me that the writer thinks Black Lives Matter but Blue (Police) Lives don't. If that's not what was meant then there was a poor choice of words as the writer hasn't conveyed their message clearly.

 

 

 

In fact All Lives Matter and the sooner we all start focusing on that the better..

 

 





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  #2508970 20-Jun-2020 22:16
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Thankfully the perpetrators have been identified and in custody...

That’s one/two less killer(s) lurking among us...

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  #2508982 20-Jun-2020 22:39
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Technofreak:

 

I have to respectfully disagree.

 

When I read this following statement I read it as Police lives don't matter.

 

It says to me that the writer thinks Black Lives Matter but Blue (Police) Lives don't. If that's not what was meant then there was a poor choice of words as the writer hasn't conveyed their message clearly.

 

In fact All Lives Matter and the sooner we all start focusing on that the better..

 

 

Where does he talk about Black Lives matter? It suggests that you are bringing your own biases in.

 

Later in the thread this was further clarified.

 

...it's absolute nonsense that the lives of police officers matter more than those of members of the public and the presumed-innocent-until-proven-guilty suspects. Notice how those words that match up to police lives don't matter? ...

 

I don't see anyone in this thread saying that Police lives don't matter. It's fairly predictable where these threads end up but you have drawn a very long bow.

 

Note: removed one lot of quotes to make compliant with forum rules.


 
 
 
 


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  #2508985 20-Jun-2020 22:46
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Technofreak:

When I read this following statement I read it as Police lives don't matter.


People need to guard against the disgusting law and order types trying to run a reductionist Blue Lives Matter campaign on the back of this kind of incident.


It says to me that the writer thinks Black Lives Matter but Blue (Police) Lives don't. If that's not what was meant then there was a poor choice of words as the writer hasn't conveyed their message clearly.


 


In fact All Lives Matter and the sooner we all start focusing on that the better..


 



No one mentioned Black Lives so not sure why you are bringing it here.

A "reductionist Blue Lives Matter" is just that. There is no mention the lives don't matter at all, just that the campaign is stylised as BLM campaigns were. If you would recall, the Blue Lives Matter campaigns in the USA were a reaction to Black Lives Matter as a way to diminish the impact of those and make it look like police officers were being hunted.

All Lives Matter is another story entirely and I would advise leaving it out of this discussion.




 

 

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  #2508996 21-Jun-2020 00:15
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Technofreak:

 

It says to me that the writer thinks Black Lives Matter but Blue (Police) Lives don't. If that's not what was meant then there was a poor choice of words as the writer hasn't conveyed their message clearly.

 

 

Quite frankly the only things your comment (objectively) prove are the following:

 

1. Your reading comprehension skills can stand serious improvement, if you are serious about having a discussion instead of just dumping strawmen all over the place; 

 

2. You have some kind of incomprehensible issue against the Black Lives Matter movement and thinks it's okay to co-opt/adopt the All Lives Matter motto without understanding the background of some of the loudest proponents of that phrase and the offensive diminishing of the legitimate grievances of the BLM cause by those who promote the use of the All Lives Matter phrase; and

 

3. My concern about reductivist/reactionary forces who will just unthinkingly react due to this incident is valid.

 

You can fantasise whatever meaning behind my post that you like. What you aren't entitled to is assert those as truth. That others not involved in my comment have told you repeatedly that you should stop digging is a good sign you should play elsewhere. However if past experience is any guide, suffering from a distinct lack of evidence rarely deters you from making silly claims.

 

 

 

 


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  #2509045 21-Jun-2020 09:22
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From Stuff
"At 10.28am on Friday morning, two officers responded to an alert involving a vehicle of interest in Massey. It is unclear what the alert was, or why it was a vehicle of interest.

Putting on their lights and sirens, the two officers attempted to pull the car over, but soon lost sight of it.

The car, fleeing police, hit and injured a member of the public before coming to a crashing halt on Reynella Drive about 10.30am.

A man got out of the car, armed with a long-barrelled firearm and fired multiple shots at the officers – striking them both. The officers were unarmed.

It's understood the officer who died was shot in the abdomen. The second officer was shot in the leg and taken to Auckland City Hospital in a serious condition, where he is now in a stable condition.

After opening fire, the shooter got into another vehicle and fled the scene with a second person."

I've pasted that because reading some of the Stuff reporting before and after that was published talking about "routine traffic stop" and bystander hit by fleeing car gives the impression that the car was stopped routinely and the bystander was hit afterwards.

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  #2509050 21-Jun-2020 09:48
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freitasm:

All Lives Matter is another story entirely and I would advise leaving it out of this discussion.

 

To clarify;

 

Perhaps I could have used a better phrase. I wasn't referring to any overseas event that may have used this phrase. I was thinking in terms of New Zealand where we have people protesting in their thousands about Black Lives Matter and debating furiously about other BLM issues, things that are triggered by events that took place overseas, yet we have terrible tragic deaths happening in New Zealand without any protest or demand that the issues around these deaths be addressed. One example is the number of young children who die due to ill treatment by family members.

 

Perhaps we have our priorities wrong?

 

That's all I intend to post about this on this thread as it's getting off topic.

 

 





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  #2509056 21-Jun-2020 10:01
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Technofreak:

 

Once again you resort to type by being being insulting and rude with your response. You don't seem to know how to disagree in a civil manner. 

 

 

This is rich coming from someone basically making up stuff about what another poster wrote and then triples-down on the falsity. You also seem to thinking that hiding behind some veneer of civility makes the conduct less nasty. 

There was nothing for you to disagree with me about — because you attributed words and meaning to me that I did not ever put out. My underlying disagreement with you here is your apparent belief that it is decent and acceptable for you to do this and then claim some kind of high ground when your lying is robustly exposed and refuted. 

 

Can’t handle the heat? Then don’t make things up about other people’s intentions. 


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  #2509076 21-Jun-2020 11:02
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Technofreak:

 

freitasm:

All Lives Matter is another story entirely and I would advise leaving it out of this discussion.

 

To clarify;

 

Perhaps I could have used a better phrase. I wasn't referring to any overseas event that may have used this phrase. I was thinking in terms of New Zealand where we have people protesting in their thousands about Black Lives Matter and debating furiously about other BLM issues, things that are triggered by events that took place overseas, yet we have terrible tragic deaths happening in New Zealand without any protest or demand that the issues around these deaths be addressed. One example is the number of young children who die due to ill treatment by family members.

 

Perhaps we have our priorities wrong?

 

That's all I intend to post about this on this thread as it's getting off topic.

 

 

I will post this as the last word on this off topic discussion - no more replies on this specific point from either @Technofreak or @dejadeadnz please.

 

@Technofreak I had the clear impression your first reply was inflammatory. You raised a point that was not being discussed. Nowhere in his first reply @dejadeadnz mentioned Black Lives Matter. His reply did not mention anywhere that police officers' lives matter less than anyone else.

 

He merely mentioned that following this episode people would use the events as a way to push an armed police agenda by using a Blue Lives Matter type of movement.

 

If you don't remember I will spell out here: racism in America is something that is still going strong. Police brutality is not unheard of and murdering of black people by police officers that shout "I was in fear of my life" as a justification is a fact - very much unlike New Zealand.

 

When a civil movement Black Lives Matter started, right-wing conservative racist bigot types started a counter-movement and called it Blue Lives Matter. At some point other right-wing conservative racist bigot types started an All Lives Matter, trying to make the plight of American minorities something less than it really is, trying to normalise it.

 

When your post quoted All Lives Matter in capitals, immediately after going on Black Lives Matter (which no one had mentioned before) alarm bells raised for me.

 

So if you used All Lives Matter by mistake, sure be my guest and say you instead wanted to say all lives matter (note the no capital). 

 

Yes, all lives matter. Yes, I agree that despite all the fanfare of an anti-smack law that was pushed through by some right-wing nuts we still see a horrible number of small children being taken to hospital or dying for the most horrible reasons. We still see people dying in road accidents. We still see people dying in hospitals for diseases that could easily be treated with a cheap vaccine that is readily available. 

 

Well, I will be damned but in some places people die because their religion forbids them of having a blood transfusion.

 

At the end this topic we have right here is about tragic events. It's not to discuss these other very large issues. And it's definitely not to start a war of words with another member who did not right what you claimed. You want to discuss these much larger topic? Create a thread. Do not hijack this one. And make sure you don't go on a war of words and personal attacks on the new thread either.





 

 

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