Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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1778 posts

Uber Geek

#3024526 20-Jan-2023 08:08

Christchurch rebuild was derailed by a much bigger monster than our Govt, Insurance companies (and reinsurance companies) who clearly didn't understand their risk / liability over "total replacement" type policies where a 150sqm house built 30 years ago for a fiver, was now going to cost upwards of $200k (back before house building prices went really stupid), it was very difficult, if not downright impossible to actually put a number on a payout (and being insurance companies, they wanted to pay out the fiver and be done with it).

Replacement for JA, no one really springs to mind. Hipkins may be the obvious choice, but would he really want it? I think he is too smart to take on something 9 months out from an election where the party is taking a beating at every turn, but more importantly for elections its the economy that will dictate the winner (almost always does). Health, education and justice make for good headlines, but if the economy is still in the crapper (regardless of who is to blame), any incumbent Govt is more than likely on a hiding to nothing going into a general election. Hipkins will be well aware of this.

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quickymart

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#3024531 20-Jan-2023 08:30

Maybe if he wins Luxon won't find it so easy to just sit and criticise all the time, without really offering an alternative?

I think Labour has a caucus vote to determine the leader (anyone feel free to correct me if I have this wrong), so I imagine we'll start hearing who has put their name forward for the role - be it Hipkins, or anyone else.

GV27

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#3024534 20-Jan-2023 08:33

I mean I'd do it. You're PM for a bit. You get that. Expectations for the future are low. You have long enough to set your own agenda and decide whether it's damage control or executing as much of your agenda as possible prior to the election. And you still have the option of trying to outflank National in the centre, which they're still not entirely sure about making a serious play for.

It's possible we may see some actual, tangible progress if only for the sake of someone getting runs on the board. I'll take that over no one getting any runs on the board at all.

tdgeek

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#3024535 20-Jan-2023 08:37

quickymart:

Maybe if he wins Luxon won't find it so easy to just sit and criticise all the time, without really offering an alternative?

I think Labour has a caucus vote to determine the leader (anyone feel free to correct me if I have this wrong), so I imagine we'll start hearing who has put their name forward for the role - be it Hipkins, or anyone else.

What I've read today is that Caucus will decide and that requires 2/3 support, and that names will be kept from the media until its decided. Should 2/3 not be achieved then it goes to the Membership

tdgeek

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#3024539 20-Jan-2023 08:42

GV27:

I mean I'd do it. You're PM for a bit. You get that. Expectations for the future are low. You have long enough to set your own agenda and decide whether it's damage control or executing as much of your agenda as possible prior to the election. And you still have the option of trying to outflank National in the centre, which they're still not entirely sure about making a serious play for.

It's possible we may see some actual, tangible progress if only for the sake of someone getting runs on the board. I'll take that over no one getting any runs on the board at all.

Agree. Expectations are a loss, so no lost brownie points i October. Let someone else have a go pushing into headwinds, and yes try to get some things over the line, so the 12 things to be repealed by Luxon goes to 13 or 15 :-)

Rikkitic

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#3024624 20-Jan-2023 09:45

networkn:

quickymart:

I'm quite disheartened to see the number of people who at the mention of her resignation already dancing up on down on the grave of her political career.

Yes, I admit that the government hasn't done a lot of things right - their handling of coronavirus was definitely an area they did extremely well in (compared to a lot of other places) but really, is there any need for the schadenfreude? All these "we hate Jacinda" posts...I bet half these people couldn't even do 1% of her job and put up with all the crap she had to.

It's easy to criticise when you're not actually doing the job yourself, but there's nothing to stop you having a go and running for something is there?

Anyway, I don't know who's going to replace her. I saw Chris Hipkins mentioned a few pages ago, he could be a possibility. Will be interesting to see who comes along next.

She asked for and accepted the job. It wasn't compulsory. Not one person has said the word hate, nor has a single person made much personal commentary of any negative consequence.

Every bit of criticism is about her leadership of successive overpromise and under-deliver Governments.

She has received fewer personal family attacks than the Key and English family both during his term and subsequent period.

I think a few people here are just overprotective and over-sensitive when it comes to JA.

You asked me for specifics in regard to criticisms of the PM and you accused me of melodrama when I referenced witchcraft trials. I urge you to read this RNZ piece, which does a pretty good job of providing context for some of my remarks.

Political attacks on policy or poor performance are one thing, and they go with the territory. But the kind of shit hurled at the PM is in another category altogether. The irrational hatred spewed at her came straight out of the antivax conspiracy crap 'freedumb' movement in reaction to measures intended to protect public health, which at any other time in history would have been rightly seen as necessary and good. Instead there was a second public health emergency, still ongoing, as New Zealand Q zombies became infected with American social media craziness.

I think Jacinda Ardern has simply had enough of the violent hatred being directed at herself and her family and I don't blame her for wanting to put an end to it. The cretins attacking her with death threats and threats to her family are absolute insane shitheads out to destroy everything that makes New Zealand a decent place to live. While the criticisms of her here in the Geekzone bubble have not been personal or excessive, that certainly isn't the case elsewhere. Feeling outraged on her behalf is not being over-protective or over-sensitive. It is submitting to a sad reality that has overtaken our fair land.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

GV27

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#3024631 20-Jan-2023 10:00

Rikkitic:

Political attacks on policy or poor performance are one thing, and they go with the territory. But the kind of shit hurled at the PM is in another category altogether. The irrational hatred spewed at her came straight out of the antivax conspiracy crap 'freedumb' movement in reaction to measures intended to protect public health, which at any other time in history would have been rightly seen as necessary and good. Instead there was a second public health emergency, still ongoing, as New Zealand Q zombies became infected with American social media craziness.

I think Jacinda Ardern has simply had enough of the violent hatred being directed at herself and her family and I don't blame her for wanting to put an end to it. The cretins attacking her with death threats and threats to her family are absolute insane shitheads out to destroy everything that makes New Zealand a decent place to live. While the criticisms of her here in the Geekzone bubble have not been personal or excessive, that certainly isn't the case elsewhere. Feeling outraged on her behalf is not being over-protective or over-sensitive. It is submitting to a sad reality that has overtaken our fair land.

It's well embedded now which is the worst thing.

Clark got conspiratorial stuff and Stalin-analogies thrown at her like it was confetti on a wedding day, Key (and his kids) were subject to death threats and misplaced anti-semitism and Ardern got the rush of anti-Covid post-Trump alt right stuff all converging at once.

When push comes to shove, a lot of Kiwis are generally just really unpleasant people.

As you say the policy performance is the thing that we should be weighing and measuring our governments on but the second someone uses the name 'Cindy' my brain shuts down and I start thinking about train trips I'd like to take one day, and that's only like 40% due to my crippling ADHD.

quickymart

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#3024701 20-Jan-2023 10:22

GV27:

When push comes to shove, a lot of Kiwis are generally just really unpleasant people.

My personal opinion is that it isn't "a lot", more like "a very loud, noisy minority" - while my mother didn't like her, she focused on her policies, not herself personally (which I have seen a lot of comments over). And I think a high percentage of this minority are very much keyboard warriors - more than happy to say "oh she's crap, I don't like her and I think she looks ugly" (or whatever) but there's no way in a million years that any of them would be brave enough to walk up to her in person on the street and say the same thing to her face.

I wish everyone would just get along despite our differences. Unfortunately - as you say - this is now embedded in. The problem isn't helped when you have idiots like Brian Tamaki, Liz Gunn, Voices for Freedom etc making it all 100% personal as opposed to policy, then it turns to crap.

Handsomedan

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#3024711 20-Jan-2023 10:45

It's a bit sad that the personal attacks are happening both online and in print.

I didn't vote for her, I don't like her politics and I am quite centre-right leaning, but she seems like a decent human and I think that is what should be taken into consideration when people comment on her - she's a human.

She's a mother and a partner/wife. She's a daughter and a friend. People should be more civil.

I think she was an awful leader of an awful government and frankly the country has gone backwards massively on her watch, but she wasn't personally responsible. She was professionally responsible, as the leader of the party, but she didn't do anything by herself. Labour/Green/Te Paati Maori were the coalition government and they collectively are to blame for the mess we're in today. Whether it'd be any different under a different government is a moot point: they were in power during the last two terms and this is the state of the country.

Now, let's leave her alone on a personal level and carry on criticising the party/parties we don't support on whichever side of the fence you sit and leave the personal attacks and character assassinations behind.

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roobarb

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#3024730 20-Jan-2023 11:40

GV27:

You have long enough to set your own agenda and decide whether it's damage control or executing as much of your agenda as possible prior to the election.

That didn't exactly work out for Liz Truss...

GV27

5882 posts

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#3024731 20-Jan-2023 11:42

roobarb:

GV27:

You have long enough to set your own agenda and decide whether it's damage control or executing as much of your agenda as possible prior to the election.

That didn't exactly work out for Liz Truss...

She chose... poorly.

Silvrav

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#3024749 20-Jan-2023 12:19

Latest poll

sen8or

1778 posts

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#3024754 20-Jan-2023 12:29

So the two parties actually gathering momentum are the greens and act, but I can't see either doing more than their 8-12% band come election time, it just whether or not the major party will have enough to form a Govt with just 1 support partner (which is likely to favour National / Act based on polls and trends) or if more than 1 is needed, then its a bit of a crap shoot again

johno1234

2733 posts

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#3024759 20-Jan-2023 12:42

Rikkitic:

Political attacks on policy or poor performance are one thing, and they go with the territory. But the kind of shit hurled at the PM is in another category altogether. The irrational hatred spewed at her came straight out of the antivax conspiracy crap 'freedumb' movement in reaction to measures intended to protect public health, which at any other time in history would have been rightly seen as necessary and good. Instead there was a second public health emergency, still ongoing, as New Zealand Q zombies became infected with American social media craziness.

It's not just Ardern though, and this is nothing new.

Don Brash literally had shit thrown at him. Stephen Joyce had a sex toy thrown at him. Everybody seemed to think that was hilarious. I did not, and if someone threw a dildo at Jacinda it would have been treated as an outrageous misogynous hate crime. John Key was physically jostled at Waitangi. A popular band Homebew (claimed by Ardern to be a favourite) wrote a song with lyrics that included raping John Key's daughter. Imagine if someone did that about Neve? Rock concert crowds have been led by the band in chants of "F*** John Key".

Politics is as nasty in NZ as it is in other democracies. I am forever perplexed that any sane person would subject themselves to it.

johno1234

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#3024760 20-Jan-2023 12:48

GV27:

tdgeek:

Wasn't that David Clark? I stand to be corrected though.

The fact I've managed to confuse them kind of tells you all you need to know. But yes, you're right.

Kiritapu Allan as a lock for deputy, I reckon, that's set in stone. If she says she wants it, she'll get it.

Question is, in a field of no-clear-winners, could she want more? IMO she should, she is likeable and capable.

Parker opposed co-governance provisions in RMS reform and was very critical of the entrenchment provisions that Mahuta and Sage attempted to sneak into parts of 3 Waters legislation. If he put up his hand he'd be blocked by the Maori caucus for sure.

It will be Hipkins/Allan. Take it to the bank.

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