Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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Networkn
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#3009752 14-Dec-2022 09:10

tdgeek:

Yep, Seymour is borderline alt-right, headline seeker, just a follower hanging on to Nationals coat strings.

What did he say? Not sure, but he is as stated. Like Peters, he is needed, and other than that, value-less, like Peters.

I am hardly a fan of Peters, in fact, I despise the guy, but without Peters I can only imagine the mess the Labour Party would have made of their first term and what state NZ would be in now. He was the handbrake on their worst decisions.

There is no excuse for Arderns outburst, it's amazing anyone would try and distract from that by blaming Seymour.

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Rikkitic

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#3009753 14-Dec-2022 09:11

I have a sense that she was responding to a long series of similar encounters, not only this one, but of course that does not excuse the comment, which was totally inappropriate.

I am about as far away from David Seymour's politics as you can get, but I can't help feeling a wisp of sneaking admiration for his ability to get under people's skin. I think he is a lot cleverer than he pretends to be.

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GV27

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#3009770 14-Dec-2022 09:44

networkn:

I am hardly a fan of Peters, in fact, I despise the guy, but without Peters I can only imagine the mess the Labour Party would have made of their first term and what state NZ would be in now. He was the handbrake on their worst decisions.

There is no excuse for Arderns outburst, it's amazing anyone would try and distract from that by blaming Seymour.

Was he? He was responsible for the dire mess that was the PGF (for a country that prides itself on corruption-free ratings, that was a doozy) and the scandal that was the 'move the Port to Northland so we can win a seat in Northland' pitch, which lead to now-Auckland but then only former-Northland mayor Wayne Brown concluding that Northland should be getting the jobs and investment while Aucklanders lose a public asset.

The Winter Energy Payment sans means-testing is another slap in the face for younger Kiwis that he can claim credit for.

I'm sorry, but NZ First were their own brand of crazy and a lot of the stuff they take credit for being the handbrake on was stuffed by the time it got to cabinet (Twyford Light Rail) and before he got anywhere near being able to make a veto on it.

Technofreak

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#3009784 14-Dec-2022 10:05

networkn:

I am hardly a fan of Peters, in fact, I despise the guy, but without Peters I can only imagine the mess the Labour Party would have made of their first term and what state NZ would be in now. He was the handbrake on their worst decisions.

There is no excuse for Arderns outburst, it's amazing anyone would try and distract from that by blaming Seymour.

Labour were only in power directly as a result of Winston Peters going against the majority of voters. National had a higher proportion of the vote in 2017 than they did for the previous election. There wasn't a mandate for change. Without him Labour were never ever going to be in government. For him to say he was their handbrake is being economical with the truth. He was their enabler, end of story.

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GV27

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#3009787 14-Dec-2022 10:15

Technofreak:

Labour were only in power directly as a result of Winston Peters going against the majority of voters.

It's really whether it was in line with the wishes of NZ First members, to which I have heard varying things over the years.

Certainly nothing you rate as more reliable than scuttlebutt, but butts generally do not scuttle totally unprompted.

Some day some political MA will manage to shed light on who knew what and when with the 2017 negotiations.

sen8or

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#3009793 14-Dec-2022 10:31

I have little doubt that NZ First was bought with the Jones slush fund and Deputy PM role for Peters in 2017. Records will of course show intense negotiations and wide ranging support from party members and a desire to change direction. Political records always show the whole truth and nothing but the truth right?

networkn

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#3009851 14-Dec-2022 11:07

Rikkitic:

I have a sense that she was responding to a long series of similar encounters, not only this one, but of course that does not excuse the comment, which was totally inappropriate.

I am about as far away from David Seymour's politics as you can get, but I can't help feeling a wisp of sneaking admiration for his ability to get under people's skin. I think he is a lot cleverer than he pretends to be.

I overheard him in a conversation I wasn't involved in, sitting in the table beside him a few months back at a cafe. I was pretty surprised by how articulate, intelligent and down-to-earth his comments were.

For better or worse he has recovered what looked to be a certain death spiral of Act and made it a reasonable-sized vote-getter.

I don't really think what Ardern said was that bad, I am sure worse has been said in both directions many many times, I guess it's more about how it reflects against her who goes to great pains to articulate a particular image.

In the grand scheme of things, it's more a talking point than a real issue :)

GV27

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#3010094 15-Dec-2022 09:04

Interesting to see the unemployment insurance scheme is still on the table - had been suggested it would be given the chop over the summer break.

Functionally, it is a tax increase. That's going to be a hard sell after you've sat on tax increases by stealth by way of refusing to index the tax brackets at a time of high inflation, as well as having conceded people needed helicopter payments to cope with living costs.

sen8or

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#3010125 15-Dec-2022 09:31

Something else the majority of middle income NZers will have to fork out for and receive back little if any benefit. This looks to be another solution looking for a problem to fix driven by Labour's increasingly unchecked ideologically driven MPs where cost/consequences be damned, "its for the good of the country".

GV27

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#3010130 15-Dec-2022 09:37

I guess the question I want answered most is how this changes the social contract for unemployment and taxpayers. I already pay tax to support a welfare system that was supposedly badly needing reform but still hasn't had it.

An additional levy for what is essentially a service the crown already provides out of generational taxation is not something I'm inclined to just wave away given that it's going to active reduce our household income.

sen8or

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#3010147 15-Dec-2022 10:07

GV27:

I guess the question I want answered most is how this changes the social contract for unemployment and taxpayers. I already pay tax to support a welfare system that was supposedly badly needing reform but still hasn't had it.

An additional levy for what is essentially a service the crown already provides out of generational taxation is not something I'm inclined to just wave away given that it's going to active reduce our household income.

And throw another cost onto businesses, remember broadly speaking, for each $1 that an individual pays, the employer also pays (I can't remember the exact details, but fairly sure its about 50/50). Do our delusional clowns in Wellington think that these costs aren't going to be passed on to consumers, or do employers (whom according to the same said clowns) have bottomless wells of money to draw on for each hair brained scheme that they dream up?

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#3010241 15-Dec-2022 11:58

sen8or:

GV27:

I guess the question I want answered most is how this changes the social contract for unemployment and taxpayers. I already pay tax to support a welfare system that was supposedly badly needing reform but still hasn't had it.

An additional levy for what is essentially a service the crown already provides out of generational taxation is not something I'm inclined to just wave away given that it's going to active reduce our household income.

And throw another cost onto businesses, remember broadly speaking, for each $1 that an individual pays, the employer also pays (I can't remember the exact details, but fairly sure its about 50/50). Do our delusional clowns in Wellington think that these costs aren't going to be passed on to consumers, or do employers (whom according to the same said clowns) have bottomless wells of money to draw on for each hair brained scheme that they dream up?

Someone on minimum income pays about 10-15% tax.

HOWEVER, the business claims it back at 30%

Wage tax deductions should be either the amount of tax paid (on PAYE) OR 30% which ever is the least amount.

sen8or

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#3010250 15-Dec-2022 12:51

What do you mean "the business claims it back at 30%"?

GV27

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#3010341 15-Dec-2022 13:43

Yea I am super.... unsure that there's not just a bunch of different things being conflated in that.

Wages as a cost is deductibe.

PAYE is deducted from staff wages and passed onto IRD, effectively on behalf of the staff.

Kyanar

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#3010355 15-Dec-2022 14:27

And a deduction only has the effect of reducing the taxable income, effectively reducing the tax payment by an amount equal to the the marginal tax rate (which for a business is a flat 30%) of the deductible amount. That statement by sir1963 is all kinds of wrong.

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