Housing Announcement and Reforms 23/03/2021

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#2684562 31-Mar-2021 09:52

tdgeek:

sir1963:

There are people who are on Dialysis who spend most of their lives hooked up onto a machine .

A very pertinent analogy

Yep, and all these fine moral people will not do it, they much prefer the risks and losses to be someone else's.

I hate people whose morals vary by how much they personally will lose/gain.

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sen8or

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#2684563 31-Mar-2021 09:55

Socialism and idealism are all well and good, until you run out of other peoples money to spend......

sir1963

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#2684565 31-Mar-2021 09:58

SaltyNZ:

sir1963:

Health is a basic human right.

Yeah and we socialise that to make sure it doesn't turn into a predatory profit-seeking industry like the US.

Yes, we pay for these people to stay hooked onto a machine.

How about you donate a kidney so they can have time with family, hold down a job, go on holiday, you know all that privelige you enjoy.

Or is it easier to demand others do something ?

GV27

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#2684567 31-Mar-2021 09:59

sir1963:

How about you take your morals and go donate a Kidney to someone. You only need one.

Having only one kidney myself, I shall quite happily continue to question your morally indefensible position as long as you keep trying to defend it with analogies that prove my point and weird false-equivalence.

sir1963

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#2684569 31-Mar-2021 10:02

GV27:

sir1963:

How about you take your morals and go donate a Kidney to someone. You only need one.

Having only one kidney myself, I shall quite happily continue to question your morally indefensible position as long as you keep trying to defend it with analogies that prove my point and weird false-equivalence.

And I had a friend who went back overseas and donated one of his to a Nephew in Europe.

And if you had 2, would you be lining up to donate one ?

tdgeek

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#2684570 31-Mar-2021 10:04

sir1963:

Yep, and all these fine moral people will not do it, they much prefer the risks and losses to be someone else's.

I hate people whose morals vary by how much they personally will lose/gain.

My take was in fact that lives hooked up to a machine relates to lives locked out of owning their own home

GV27

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#2684571 31-Mar-2021 10:06

sir1963:

And if you had 2, would you be lining up to donate one ?

Do you want to explain how you can rant about other's self-interest yet your reflex response to investors having their wings clipped is threatening to jack up rents and taking it out on tenants, who haven't actually done anything to you?

sir1963:

Yep, and all these fine moral people will not do it, they much prefer the risks and losses to be someone else's.

sir1963

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#2684659 31-Mar-2021 11:35

GV27:

Do you want to explain how you can rant about other's self-interest yet your reflex response to investors having their wings clipped is threatening to jack up rents and taking it out on tenants, who haven't actually done anything to you?

[

I wanted to see how your morals tracked when it was you who perhaps had to give up something significant. I now know. Thanks.

sir1963

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#2684662 31-Mar-2021 11:40

tdgeek:

sir1963:

Yep, and all these fine moral people will not do it, they much prefer the risks and losses to be someone else's.

I hate people whose morals vary by how much they personally will lose/gain.

My take was in fact that lives hooked up to a machine relates to lives locked out of owning their own home

Nope, it was about how they felt about moral stands where THEY could be the loser.

There are people who will give back the incorrect change at a shop, others who will will claim "it's their fault" and keep it. But if they are shortchanged then all hell breaks loose .

Likewise they find a wallet with money in it "Finders Keepers" comes into play, but if they lose a wallet "Some scam has probably stolen it".

People who change their morals based on if its a win/loss for them are the worst.

GV27

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#2684664 31-Mar-2021 11:43

sir1963:

But if they are shortchanged then all hell breaks loose .

Irony isn't one of your strengths, is it.

tdgeek

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#2684667 31-Mar-2021 11:48

sir1963:

Nope, it was about how they felt about moral stands where THEY could be the loser.

There are people who will give back the incorrect change at a shop, others who will will claim "it's their fault" and keep it. But if they are shortchanged then all hell breaks loose .

Likewise they find a wallet with money in it "Finders Keepers" comes into play, but if they lose a wallet "Some scam has probably stolen it".

People who change their morals based on if its a win/loss for them are the worst.

Nope, that your take, I told you my take

AFAIK GV owns his own home, so do I. What would work for us is investors hiding behind the "it's a business" when its actually a risk free investment that is screwing with others desire to buy a roof over their heads, or would you prefer to skew it so they have to rent? The result is houses go up and up and up, suits us both. But not being selfish, we see the reality amongst many Kiwis being shut out.

sen8or

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#2684689 31-Mar-2021 12:08

It isn't a risk free investment.

You can get tenants who trash the property, no insurance covers for that.

You can get tenants who don't pay rent and take an age to evict

You can have gaps in rentals with no income

Interest rates can increase making mortgage payments unaffordable, especially if the property is sitting empty.

Through other market forces property prices can go down (over supply, higher interest rates, adverse event in the area etc). Yes even in Auckland prices have periodically declined.

You can get hit with other remediation / improvement work at the will of the Govt of the day (insulation in homes, permanent source of heating).

Some of this is influenced by the Govt and some changes are good (healthy homes for example) others are down to good management (getting the right level of rent with good tenants) and risk minimising (locking in interest rates, term tenancy agreements).

This whole thread is pie in the sky stuff and it will be sometime in the future before what the true effects of the changes are but I can pretty much guarantee -

If investment in rentals drop and homes become more affordable for FHB, it will be touted by our current Govt as a win and be front and centre of one news, if there is significant financial hardship for landlords, it will barely make a drop in segment on 7 sharp

tdgeek

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#2684696 31-Mar-2021 12:21

Ive been a landlord on more than one occasion and I am well aware and have expereinced most of those points. The capital gain is risk free, end of story. landlords wont suffer and financial catastrophe, they will just cash out the capital gain sooner than later and invest elsewhere where they might add value to the economy.

SaltyNZ

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#2684709 31-Mar-2021 12:35

tdgeek:

Ive been a landlord on more than one occasion and I am well aware and have expereinced most of those points. The capital gain is risk free, end of story. landlords wont suffer and financial catastrophe, they will just cash out the capital gain sooner than later and invest elsewhere where they might add value to the economy.

Yeah exactly, I once had a tenant do a runner, so I'm not exactly inexperienced in the pain points of being a landlord either. But ... I got over it. And all the current landlords either will too, or they'll get out of being landlords and someone else can own the homes they previously held.

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sir1963

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#2684722 31-Mar-2021 12:47

SaltyNZ:

tdgeek:

Ive been a landlord on more than one occasion and I am well aware and have expereinced most of those points. The capital gain is risk free, end of story. landlords wont suffer and financial catastrophe, they will just cash out the capital gain sooner than later and invest elsewhere where they might add value to the economy.

Yeah exactly, I once had a tenant do a runner, so I'm not exactly inexperienced in the pain points of being a landlord either. But ... I got over it. And all the current landlords either will too, or they'll get out of being landlords and someone else can own the homes they previously held.

You missed out the part where the new owner will boot the existing tenants out (if it was not done before hand so it could be sold). No new houses were created, no housing issues were resolved.

Although when interest rates do rise there may be a pool of mortgagee sales for investors to buy.

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