Housing Announcement and Reforms 23/03/2021

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#2681202 26-Mar-2021 16:37

GV27:

sir1963:

Great, you are not good at interpreting graphs and how the axis are relevant. By lengthening or shortening the Y axis, that graph will look very very different.

All the lines about that graph are about 30% for a nine-year period.

You told me off for talking about one month. You said you could find an hour, so that made my point less relevant.

Now I am showing you nine years of investor activity, above 30%, and still you're trying to suggest it isn't representative because of the Y axis?

The argument broadly comes down to: This change is bad for me so any data is invalid.

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sir1963

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#2681239 26-Mar-2021 18:21

GV27:

sir1963:

Great, you are not good at interpreting graphs and how the axis are relevant. By lengthening or shortening the Y axis, that graph will look very very different.

All the lines about that graph are about 30% for a nine-year period.

You told me off for talking about one month. You said you could find an hour, so that made my point less relevant.

Now I am showing you nine years of investor activity, above 30%, and still you're trying to suggest it isn't representative because of the Y axis?

So these 2 graphs are of exactly the same information, Axis scale matters

tdgeek

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#2681242 26-Mar-2021 18:29

sir1963:

No its irrelevant because you are data selecting.

As I say I can probably find some time/day/week where that stats are completely different.

What you are in effect saying is climate change is a hoax because its cold this week.

My goodness, this thread is out of control. Look, I had a rental when I was 19, and since, I get it. The Nov/Dec 2020 at 2/3 I quoted is real. Its not an hour, its 1/6 of a year. No fluke. Is there a need for investors to provide rentals? Yes. Is there a need for the easy residential low risk market to be a easy means that as we have seen affects the prime use of residential, i.e. homes? No. If a Mum and Dad bought a rental, and it more or less pays for itself thats fine. Retirement fund, or to give the kids a leg up. if its a business, no. get a business. Or go commercial. I could say, lets make it real easy to go residential, no risk, sort your yield, here are the tax breaks. Then thats good as its easy, no risk (as residential is), and prices go up, yay. But these are homes, not busnesses, you are effectively turning homes where we live into businesses, so good bye homeowners. These Govt measures are merely to keep homes as homes, business people look elsewhere. We want to turn Nov/Dec 2020 from 66% businesses to 90% homes, and let those that want buy and rent to pay off the mortgage for long term benefits to do that. Or shall we screw homeowners and skew the market to be a 95% rental economy?

Handle9

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#2681267 26-Mar-2021 20:17

tdgeek:
sir1963:

No its irrelevant because you are data selecting.

As I say I can probably find some time/day/week where that stats are completely different.

What you are in effect saying is climate change is a hoax because its cold this week.

My goodness, this thread is out of control. Look, I had a rental when I was 19, and since, I get it. The Nov/Dec 2020 at 2/3 I quoted is real. Its not an hour, its 1/6 of a year. No fluke. Is there a need for investors to provide rentals? Yes. Is there a need for the easy residential low risk market to be a easy means that as we have seen affects the prime use of residential, i.e. homes? No. If a Mum and Dad bought a rental, and it more or less pays for itself thats fine. Retirement fund, or to give the kids a leg up. if its a business, no. get a business. Or go commercial. I could say, lets make it real easy to go residential, no risk, sort your yield, here are the tax breaks. Then thats good as its easy, no risk (as residential is), and prices go up, yay. But these are homes, not busnesses, you are effectively turning homes where we live into businesses, so good bye homeowners. These Govt measures are merely to keep homes as homes, business people look elsewhere. We want to turn Nov/Dec 2020 from 66% businesses to 90% homes, and let those that want buy and rent to pay off the mortgage for long term benefits to do that. Or shall we screw homeowners and skew the market to be a 95% rental economy?

Property speculators will just have to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and stop wasting money on cigarettes, alcohol and avocado toast.

sir1963

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#2681270 26-Mar-2021 20:55

Handle9

Property speculators will just have to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and stop wasting money on cigarettes, alcohol and avocado toast.

You clearly do not understand the difference between a landlord and a property speculator.

But it is worth noting that these changes DO NOT impact property speculators at all. They will STILL buy at the cheap end, still tidy the place up, and still on sell it for a nice profit and still have all the tax breaks that every other business has too, including their work brunch of avocado on toast.

Handle9

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#2681271 26-Mar-2021 21:07

sir1963:

Handle9

Property speculators will just have to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and stop wasting money on cigarettes, alcohol and avocado toast.

You clearly do not understand the difference between a landlord and a property speculator.

But it is worth noting that these changes DO NOT impact property speculators at all. They will STILL buy at the cheap end, still tidy the place up, and still on sell it for a nice profit and still have all the tax breaks that every other business has too, including their work brunch of avocado on toast.

It's not that I don't understand, I'm just entirely disinterested in selfish arguments trying to tag accounting practice with some sort of moral imperative. It's laughable.

sir1963

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#2681272 26-Mar-2021 21:08

tdgeek:

sir1963:

No its irrelevant because you are data selecting.

As I say I can probably find some time/day/week where that stats are completely different.

What you are in effect saying is climate change is a hoax because its cold this week.

My goodness, this thread is out of control. Look, I had a rental when I was 19, and since, I get it. The Nov/Dec 2020 at 2/3 I quoted is real. Its not an hour, its 1/6 of a year. No fluke. Is there a need for investors to provide rentals? Yes. Is there a need for the easy residential low risk market to be a easy means that as we have seen affects the prime use of residential, i.e. homes? No. If a Mum and Dad bought a rental, and it more or less pays for itself thats fine. Retirement fund, or to give the kids a leg up. if its a business, no. get a business. Or go commercial. I could say, lets make it real easy to go residential, no risk, sort your yield, here are the tax breaks. Then thats good as its easy, no risk (as residential is), and prices go up, yay. But these are homes, not busnesses, you are effectively turning homes where we live into businesses, so good bye homeowners. These Govt measures are merely to keep homes as homes, business people look elsewhere. We want to turn Nov/Dec 2020 from 66% businesses to 90% homes, and let those that want buy and rent to pay off the mortgage for long term benefits to do that. Or shall we screw homeowners and skew the market to be a 95% rental economy?

Look its cold for 6 months, told you global warming was a fraud.

House rentals is a business, it is offering a service for a fee.

As for the rest, pfft, nothing to do with reality.

Germany, Switzerland , Hong Kong, Denmark, Japan, UK, all have lower rates of home ownership, but far better economies. We are about on par with the USA, France, Sweden

sir1963

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#2681273 26-Mar-2021 21:09

Handle9:

It's not that I don't understand, I'm just entirely disinterested in selfish arguments trying to tag accounting practice with some sort of moral imperative. It's laughable.

Ahh so its Morals that are more important.. yes ?

703

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#2681281 26-Mar-2021 21:53

Handle9:
703:

Rents going up significantly over the next few years to offset against tax bigger bill. When rents go up, the economy shrinks as people don't have surplus or splash out on anything non essential.

This will mean people who are renting at the lower end will become homeless or in state housing.

changes nothing for landlords, as there will be a national wide price hike and there is nothing the government can do about it. Same with increases in commodity prices because the cost of goods has gone up.

There will be a few more first home buyers being able to buy their entry level homes, but most renters have no deposit to borrow any money anyway and will remain renters for life.

so the government better start building to house people.

There's quite a lot that can be done to control rental price rises. Rent controls are the logical next step.

Government has no power to set absolute rent prices.

Handle9

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#2681282 26-Mar-2021 21:57

703:

Handle9:

There's quite a lot that can be done to control rental price rises. Rent controls are the logical next step.

Government has no power to set absolute rent prices.

That's easy to change.

sir1963

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#2681314 27-Mar-2021 09:12

Handle9:

That's easy to change.

Well this was 100% predictable

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/03/spooked-investors-developers-hitting-pause-on-housing-projects-over-government-changes.html

Fred99

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#2681317 27-Mar-2021 09:27

sir1963:

Handle9:

That's easy to change.

Well this was 100% predictable

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/03/spooked-investors-developers-hitting-pause-on-housing-projects-over-government-changes.html

Yep. It's entirely predictable that Newshub would write that story with that headline without a single verifiable case confirming the headline.

sir1963

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#2681327 27-Mar-2021 11:12

Fred99:

Yep. It's entirely predictable that Newshub would write that story with that headline without a single verifiable case confirming the headline.

"Ernst and Young partner Brad Wheeler has clients - developers and investors - hitting pause on building. "

I work on the basis that everyone tells the truth until proven otherwise, and a proportion of them are simply ill-informed and not deliberate liars.

An Accountancy/ Law/ Finance firm is NOT going to break confidentiality about their clients, and they are not blowhards , so yea, they will be telling the truth.

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#2681341 27-Mar-2021 12:16

sir1963:

Handle9:

That's easy to change.

Well this was 100% predictable

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/03/spooked-investors-developers-hitting-pause-on-housing-projects-over-government-changes.html

What if the govt spent $50 million to build a mega housing complex and sell to struggling families at near cost

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/124666099/50-million-mori-trades-and-training-fund-produces-four-jobs-so-far-since-june

sir1963

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#2681396 27-Mar-2021 12:57

Batman:

What if the govt spent $50 million to build a mega housing complex and sell to struggling families at near cost

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/124666099/50-million-mori-trades-and-training-fund-produces-four-jobs-so-far-since-june

What does funding to produce 4 jobs have to do with the reality of housing ?

And that is no where close to any meaningful funding.

Tainui are building a 311 room hotel out by Auckland Airport costing $150 million.

This means no kitchens, no laundries, no dining rooms , no balconies , no storage , no multiple bedrooms,, no onsite facilities such as play grounds, etc etc etc

It also means room do not have individual facilities that can be tracked for billing , eg power, water, phone, internet which means additional costs for "service rooms" to house these.

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