The politicisation of NZ's covid response

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#2873001 22-Feb-2022 22:51

quickymart:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/simon-wilson-no-christopher-luxon-and-protesters-mandates-are-not-the-issue/23ARQEXXOBYQPCPOTVKA3FHBVE/ (paywalled)
An opinion piece from Simon Wilson around Christopher Luxon's call to remove vaccine mandates.

I read it, it didn't say much. After reading it I was left wondering what his point actually was. 5 minutes I'll never get back.

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Technofreak

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#2873004 22-Feb-2022 23:09

alexx:

Technofreak:

I think we actually need some middle ground and someone to try and bridge the gaps within our society as it currently is. There are a lot of divisions some created by Covid and some by the government's political agendas. A lot of people feel alienated to a greater or lesser extent in one way or another. That happens with governments of all persuasions just this time Covid has accentuated things. I don't see any way out of it for this government, they are seen as the cause whether or not they are responsible.

Which divisions are these? The biggest gaps are those between the rich and the poor, the people with a house with a spare room and bathroom where they can self isolate, and those living in overcrowded housing. Each time there is any attempt to address those divisions, whether is be through changes in taxation, high density housing zone changes, Māori land rights or any other changes to reduce inequalities, the howls of anguish from the leafy suburbs is deafening, shortly followed by an article in the NZ Herald about how a drop in house prices would be the worst thing in New Zealand history.

The people that would be complaining the loudest about the government actually addressing these problems would be the same ones complaining about so called loss of freedoms. I hear that Russell Coutts wasn't able to get some special quarantine allocation for his SailGP series. He doesn't care about inequality and freedoms for ordinary New Zealanders, he wanted special treatment.

I was talking about the divisions for example like those created by the mandates and the way MIQ has been managed. These and other things like them are going to take time to heal or bridge. There is a lot of people who feel alienated, families have been split etc. I'm not attempting to pass judgement on anyone on either side of the division just merely stating the divisions exist and as a country we need to find a way to bridge these gaps so that we can move forward in a collegial manner.

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#2873073 23-Feb-2022 09:13

So, we are pretty much at the start of the outbreak, not even close to peak, and labs are overwhelmed already and not taking any more samples.

Those who support the government will be sure to dismiss this as no big deal, but couple this with most hospitals already at ~97-102% capacity and things are pretty grim looking.

It is a big deal and people should be held accountable.

itxtme

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#2873083 23-Feb-2022 09:34

networkn:

It is a big deal and people should be held accountable.

MoH, MoH, MoH. It is a dysfunctional department, thats looked good for 2 years only due to elimination - ie not needing to actually provide health services at scale. What I am annoyed by is their inability to allow a wider variety of RATs. Australia has more than double what we have, with many of theirs having higher specificity. I could order 20 tests today for extended family if they wouldn't be seized at the border by customs. But no they have decided they should control every facet of the response, and now the rubbers hitting the road their incompetence is speaking volumes..

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#2873088 23-Feb-2022 09:40

itxtme:

MoH, MoH, MoH. It is a dysfunctional department, thats looked good for 2 years only due to elimination - ie not needing to actually provide health services at scale. What I am annoyed by is their inability to allow a wider variety of RATs. Australia has more than double what we have, with many of theirs having higher specificity. I could order 20 tests today for extended family if they wouldn't be seized at the border by customs. But no they have decided they should control every facet of the response, and now the rubbers hitting the road their incompetence is speaking volumes..

The MOH hasn't looked good for any period, but not many people look past Jacinda as our Saviour.

The issue is the MOH have been dysfunctional for the longest time, and under Labour it's got considerably worse (or at least considerably more visibly incompetent). The fact that Labour has taken no significant steps to fix some of the most glaring issues (or if they have they have done so almost entirely ineffectively which is it's own significant problem).

Bottom line, the MOH is a Government department which is a total mess. The Government holds responsibility for that.

Technofreak

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#2873121 23-Feb-2022 10:17

Unfortunately this article is behind a paywall. It doesn't paint the MOH in a good light. I really struggle to see how Ashley Bloomfield has kept his job.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-did-health-officials-mislead-pm-and-public-on-testing-capability/OT2F3MQFPEDD5OPAG34LJBS5J4/

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#2873129 23-Feb-2022 10:22

Technofreak:

Unfortunately this article is behind a paywall. It doesn't paint the MOH in a good light. I really struggle to see how Ashley Bloomfield has kept his job.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-did-health-officials-mislead-pm-and-public-on-testing-capability/OT2F3MQFPEDD5OPAG34LJBS5J4/

People will write this off because they don't like Hooton, but this is consistent with what we have seen and heard through various medical outlets over the past 3 months.

The press should really make sure they get answers from the Government over this.

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#2873141 23-Feb-2022 10:34

I wouldn't hold RAT's up as some kind of holy grail. My personally seen experience with about 50 tests is they are unreliable and sensitive to environment. I've seen a box of 20 fail after being stored in a carboard box near a window, I've seen 2 people fail to administer the swab to the correct depth which resulted in a negative test that was positive when a RN administered the same test correctly, the strip on some bled red dye along the whole strip making it impossible to see all but the strongest responses. I think in general they give too much sense of confidence to people when they could be doing things wrong

A number of clients of ours have policies of fridge storage and them being administered by either an RN or someone trained by an RN.

I'm more in favor of the Chinese approach where tests are administered in groups of 10, the tests are all mixed and then sent to the lab, if you get a positive hit then the 10 are tested separately. In theory a 10x boost to testing capacity but in reality 4-6x which is still a good return

edit:// Article above seems to indicate this was being done and was infact a apart of the testing capacity numbers being quoted

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#2873147 23-Feb-2022 10:40

Beccara:

I wouldn't hold RAT's up as some kind of holy grail. My personally seen experience with about 50 tests is they are unreliable and sensitive to environment. I've seen a box of 20 fail after being stored in a carboard box near a window, I've seen 2 people fail to administer the swab to the correct depth which resulted in a negative test that was positive when a RN administered the same test correctly, the strip on some bled red dye along the whole strip making it impossible to see all but the strongest responses. I think in general they give too much sense of confidence to people when they could be doing things wrong

They aren't that accurate, I agree, and subject to failure on a number of levels including incorrect testing procedures, but ultimately, we aren't really trying to contain Omicron, we are trying to flatten the curve by isolating people who test positive. Even if it's 50% accurate, you have 50% less people running around spreading it (so long as they isolate).

The alternative as of now, is no testing at all.

They need to move to phase 3 at Midnight tonight, which means you isolate if you have symptoms and until you don't have any worsening ones.

The Government and MOH's incompetence has meant Phase 2 is a waste of time money and valuable other resources.

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#2873210 23-Feb-2022 12:05

networkn:

Technofreak:

Unfortunately this article is behind a paywall. It doesn't paint the MOH in a good light. I really struggle to see how Ashley Bloomfield has kept his job.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-did-health-officials-mislead-pm-and-public-on-testing-capability/OT2F3MQFPEDD5OPAG34LJBS5J4/

People will write this off because they don't like Hooton, but this is consistent with what we have seen and heard through various medical outlets over the past 3 months.

Maybe people will write this off because Hooton writes one eyed opinion pieces like a rabid attack dog and doesn't have the balance a real journalist would use?

Haven't read the article but Hooton is clearly biased.

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#2873219 23-Feb-2022 12:11

Dude atleast read the article. What you say might be true but even a broken watch is right twice a day. Something is sus with testing capacity quoted vs real numbers

elpenguino

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#2873222 23-Feb-2022 12:16

Beccara:

Dude atleast read the article. What you say might be true but even a broken watch is right twice a day. Something is sus with testing capacity quoted vs real numbers

haha true.

Maybe a health insider is better placed to comment than a political commentator?

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#2873228 23-Feb-2022 12:26

About all I know is testing from Hamilton to Warkworth is hit and miss, everywhere else in the country still seems to be a solid 24-36 hour turn around. There was talk of a lab worker strike so I wonder if some labs are doing an unofficial work to rule/no overtime quasi strike but that's is 110% speculation/guessing

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#2873244 23-Feb-2022 12:43

elpenguino:

Beccara:

Dude atleast read the article. What you say might be true but even a broken watch is right twice a day. Something is sus with testing capacity quoted vs real numbers

haha true.

Maybe a health insider is better placed to comment than a political commentator?

Doesn't require that. MOH were asked to provide testing capacity numbers and have provided that to Hooton and the PM's office. We are at less than 50% of those numbers and no longer can test due to capacity issues.

Bias doesn't mean incorrect, and I think you should read the article if you can. It's damning and people should be concerned, regardless of which team you support.

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#2873271 23-Feb-2022 13:45

Someone needs a stern talking to that's for sure. I strongly suspect 3 capacity numbers were given up the chain: Ideal conditions, Increased positivity rate found internationally, Extreme positivity at 2-3x international rate, someone picked Ideal conditions to goto their boss and here we are

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