tdgeek:

 

Ill take your word for all that as your wife is a GP. Its whats been reported by the media. MoH also reported that the numbers are based on WHO, who decided that cases in hospital that have Covid are Covid cases, even if its a non Covid need

 

The Covid response until Omicron has been primarily a health-focused one, decisions being made now are more political than health-related.

networkn:

 

 

 

I can tell you that the view we have from inside the hospital 100% conflicts with that information being provided via the Podium. I can tell you that MANY hospital staff are in total disbelief at what is being reported.

 

 

 

When has what has been pronounced from "The Podium of Truth" ever reflected what was happening on the hospital/health system shop floor. Right back to there's plenty of masks back in 2020 when in fact there wasn't plenty, not where they were needed.

networkn:

 

tdgeek:

 

Ill take your word for all that as your wife is a GP. Its whats been reported by the media. MoH also reported that the numbers are based on WHO, who decided that cases in hospital that have Covid are Covid cases, even if its a non Covid need

 

 

The Covid response until Omicron has been primarily a health-focused one, decisions being made now are more political than health-related.

 

 

 

You can bet their decisions are being driven by focus groups and polls rather than cold hard facts and science.

Technofreak:

 

You can bet their decisions are being driven by focus groups and polls rather than cold hard facts and science.

 

I am trying to stay away from this discussion but I strongly feel comments like this need to be nuanced. It is not just about facts vs politics. It is about leadership, and how far people can be pushed before civil order breaks down. I think the government is trying to walk a fine line between what ideally should be done, and what people will put up with. Initially there was a lot of public buy-in to the fact-based restrictions, but over time people have become increasingly fed up with these kinds of measures and it becomes harder to get the kind of cooperation that is needed. The authorities can't arrest everyone who defies the rules. People have to be willing to go along with what is being asked of them. The decisions are being driven by the realisation that people just won't put up with the restrictions any more and relaxing most of them is the least worst option. Another word for that is realism.

Rikkitic:

 

I am trying to stay away from this discussion but I strongly feel comments like this need to be nuanced. It is not just about facts vs politics. It is about leadership, and how far people can be pushed before civil order breaks down. I think the government is trying to walk a fine line between what ideally should be done, and what people will put up with. Initially there was a lot of public buy-in to the fact-based restrictions, but over time people have become increasingly fed up with these kinds of measures and it becomes harder to get the kind of cooperation that is needed. The authorities can't arrest everyone who defies the rules. People have to be willing to go along with what is being asked of them. The decisions are being driven by the realisation that people just won't put up with the restrictions any more and relaxing most of them is the least worst option. Another word for that is realism.

 

Whilst that is really possibly quite true, I don't think it applies to the loosening of the rules right now. People aren't revolting over the current restrictions (too much), even though on the whole, people are following them a bit less closely. 

People probably wouldn't be very happy with a full lockdown or a further significant tightening of the rules, but the current rules aren't too restrictive.

The reality is, the Government is under pressure right now, and rightly so, over decisions made earlier and now, and it's more than likely in my view, these decisions are to relieve some of the pressure they are under by providing some 'good' news and somewhat of a distraction. 

I have disagreed with many of the decisions made and the poor execution of many elements of the response, but I haven't disagreed with the health first aspect of it. I've been supportive of the lockdowns (though not the length of the last one in Auckland, and believe one of them was very likely avoidable)

This latest move is quite a move away from that in my view and the view of almost all the medical professionals we have seen comments by in various communities.

Covid 19 Omicron Outbreak: Christopher Luxon wants Government to move on from the 'fake framework' of the traffic light system - NZ Herald

 

National leader Christopher Luxon wants the Government to dismantle the traffic light system, saying the thinking behind it created a "fake framework" without logic, thanks to the removal of effectively mandatory vaccine passes.

 

"There is a no need for vaccine passes and vaccine mandates going forward - and that has been our issue," Luxon said, agreeing with the Government's decision to get rid of them.

 

Luxon said the Government had not responded to the changing threat posed by the virus, and yesterday's announcement of the eventual scrapping of vaccine passes and most mandates was not enough.

 

"We're stuck in a 2020 mindset in 2022. That's why we're supportive of the removal of passes and mandates," Luxon said.

 

But National wants the whole traffic light system gone, and replaced with a smaller number of "simple" rules.

 

New Covid protections could be brought back if needed, Luxon said.

 

"We just wish [the Government] would push on now and remove the traffic light system, because it doesn't add any value," Luxon said.

 

"If the risk was to change, we've got a bunch of tools and a bunch of different measures that we can put into place," he said.

 

In reality, they aren't proposing anything. They talk a lot, pandering to the "no mandate" and "business must open" people but nowhere there's a proposal. Only these words.

^ yep. Amazingly, he didn't mention he used to run an airline, for once 😄

freitasm:

 

In reality, they aren't proposing anything. They talk a lot, pandering to the "no mandate" and "business must open" people but nowhere there's a proposal. Only these words.

 

They are proposing removing the traffic light system, which has probably done it's dash under the current conditions anyways, and agreeing with removing mandates (which isn't the same as agreeing with those who disagreed with mandates in the first place). 

Saying there isn't a reason to continue with mandates isn't saying you agree with anti mandaters or anti vaxxers.

quickymart:

 

^ yep. Amazingly, he didn't mention he used to run an airline, for once 😄

 

I'd prefer hearing that, than the announcement of an announcement announcing an upcoming announcement of an announcement.  :)

(This could also fit into the National thread):

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/128155701/nationals-luxon-unwittingly-meets-antivaccine-mandate-protester

Come on. He was quite clearly at the protest (apparently his dance was quite famous), but Luxon or Bishop "didn't know"? Spare me.

Just another National MP to add to the hangs out with anti-vaxers without knowing it list.

quickymart:

 

(This could also fit into the National thread):

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/128155701/nationals-luxon-unwittingly-meets-antivaccine-mandate-protester

 

Come on. He was quite clearly at the protest (apparently his dance was quite famous), but Luxon or Bishop "didn't know"? Spare me.

 

As I said in my previous post, looks like pandering to the "no mandate" and "business must open" people.

AFAIK the business must open brigade has been saying this, what seems to be, forever. Now we have/are, its an issue. 

I guess whatever is decided by the Govt and/or MoH, it's always a problem it seems.

tdgeek:

 

AFAIK the business must open brigade has been saying this, what seems to be, forever. Now we have/are, its an issue. 

 

I guess whatever is decided by the Govt and/or MoH, it's always a problem it seems.

 

It was always going to be this. We can't be locked down forever - but while we were people called it a "hermit kingdom" completely disregarding the number of lives saved so far thanks to a successful vaccination push. /

Once it's open or conditions are relaxed people complain because "covid is ripping through the country".

But hey, anything for the quick vote. 

quickymart:

 

(This could also fit into the National thread):

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/128155701/nationals-luxon-unwittingly-meets-antivaccine-mandate-protester

 

Come on. He was quite clearly at the protest (apparently his dance was quite famous), but Luxon or Bishop "didn't know"? Spare me.

 

Are we all allowed to make these types of unproven accusations and draw these types of conclusions about whatever party or politician we don't favour?

Obviously, it's pretty easy to avoid meeting anyone 'undesirable' when you stay hidden away from anyone you might disagree with.