Ukraine War discussion

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#3004939 2-Dec-2022 23:25

SepticSceptic: Why isn't Ukraine lobbing drones and other munitions across the border, targeting infrastructure.?

Because that constitutes an attack on Russia, which risks triggering Russia’s nuclear weapon use policy.

linw

2835 posts

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#3004957 3-Dec-2022 07:53

And I believe the west is providing weapons only if not used to fire on Russia. Links to neb's ref to nuclear invocation.

VERY frustrating though. Would love to see some missiles drop on the Kremlin.

Rikkitic

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#3004962 3-Dec-2022 08:28

linw:

Would love to see some missiles drop on the Kremlin.

Not me. Maybe a Banksy print or two.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

ezbee

2337 posts

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#3005301 3-Dec-2022 14:50

They do few very targeted attacks, but...

Ukraine just wants Russia to 'Go Away'
Just want to live peacefully 'Without Russia'

In the end Ukraine has no desire to foster more 'batshit crazy' hatred by Russian people.
Just wants them to stop killing and go back home.

Propagandists have been pushing idea of Ukraine forcing gay parades and tanks rolling in downtown Russia.
Clearly rubbish.
Just go home.

Something lighter...

VERKA SERDUCHKA - Dancing russia Goodbye | Atlas Online — #рашагудбай
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frGegH-jVy0&t

Vladimir Putin - Putin, Putout (The Unofficial Russian Anthem) by Klemen Slakonja
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-wFKNy0MZQ

Technofreak

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#3005302 3-Dec-2022 14:52

neb:
SepticSceptic: Why isn't Ukraine lobbing drones and other munitions across the border, targeting infrastructure.?

Because that constitutes an attack on Russia, which risks triggering Russia’s nuclear weapon use policy.

Eventually the day must arrive when neutralising Russia's ability to lob missiles into Ukraine from Russia has to occur. As it it now Russia can just sit there and wear down Ukraine, which is exactly what happening now with the destruction of the electricity network in Ukraine.

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Sideface

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#3005322 3-Dec-2022 17:44

BBC News - Banksy unveils Ukraine murals on building shelled by Russia 12 Nov 2022

Banksy, The Sequel:

BBC News - Police foil group trying to steal Banksy mural from Ukraine wall

today

A mural by renowned graffiti artist Banksy remains intact after a group of people tried to steal it from the wall of a war-torn building in Ukraine.

The group cut off a section of board and plaster bearing the artwork of a woman in a gas mask, officials said.

Police said a number of people were arrested at the scene in Hostomel and the painting has been retrieved.

It was one of several works created by the anonymous British artist in Ukraine last month.

The graffiti is undamaged ...

Note the December snow on the heatpump and windowsill.

Sideface

Tinkerisk

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#3005445 4-Dec-2022 03:15

Sideface:

Note the December snow on the heatpump and windowsill.

„The graffiti is undamaged ...“ That‘s not true. It misses at least the feet of that woman which are still painted at the wall.

And the cat has been stolen! ;-)

BTW: GER is facing a lack of ammunition

What I already feared in spring is now official and „… some politicians raise concern that the country is arming Ukraine at the expense of its own defense capabilities.“

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Technofreak

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#3005651 4-Dec-2022 15:39

Tinkerisk:

BTW: GER is facing a lack of ammunition

What I already feared in spring is now official and „… some politicians raise concern that the country is arming Ukraine at the expense of its own defense capabilities.“

I think the proverb of "Talk softy and carry a big stick" holds as true as ever.

Sadly too many want to talk softly but don't see the value in paying for the big stick. It's a bit like paying for insurance. You pay for something you hope you never need and rarely ever use.

You never know when a villian like Putin is going to decide to chance their arm. The big stick can be seen as a waste of money but it's very cheap insurance.

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Tinkerisk

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#3005668 4-Dec-2022 17:09

Technofreak:

I think the proverb of "Talk softy and carry a big stick" holds as true as ever.

Sadly too many want to talk softly but don't see the value in paying for the big stick. It's a bit like paying for insurance. You pay for something you hope you never need and rarely ever use.

You never know when a villian like Putin is going to decide to chance their arm. The big stick can be seen as a waste of money but it's very cheap insurance.

Sure. But "pay" also means that you can only spend a euro once and, as I said, Germany was always called upon when it came to paying. That has to come from somewhere - in my opinion, it's best if it comes from those who shout the loudest and always push us to the front of the stage and slip away in the back.

Technofreak

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#3005698 4-Dec-2022 20:29

Tinkerisk:

Technofreak:

I think the proverb of "Talk softy and carry a big stick" holds as true as ever.

Sadly too many want to talk softly but don't see the value in paying for the big stick. It's a bit like paying for insurance. You pay for something you hope you never need and rarely ever use.

You never know when a villian like Putin is going to decide to chance their arm. The big stick can be seen as a waste of money but it's very cheap insurance.

Sure. But "pay" also means that you can only spend a euro once and, as I said, Germany was always called upon when it came to paying. That has to come from somewhere - in my opinion, it's best if it comes from those who shout the loudest and always push us to the front of the stage and slip away in the back.

No argument there. Everyone needs to pull their weight. For what it's worth I don't think New Zealand pulls its weight in this area.

My comment wasn't aimed at any particular country. It's a malaise that affects pretty well all western democracies. Most of the worlds western democracy population haven't lived through the scenario that is happening in Ukraine. They have forgotten or choose to ignore history and see no value in having the insurance of a big stick.

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gzt

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#3005851 5-Dec-2022 10:41

Technofreak: Eventually the day must arrive when neutralising Russia's ability to lob missiles into Ukraine from Russia has to occur.

USA and other countries are providing more of that:

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3231049/us-allies-work-to-supply-ukraine-air-defense-needs/

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2022/12/01/raytheon-wins-12-billion-surface-to-air-missile-order-for-ukraine/

ezbee

2337 posts

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#3006200 6-Dec-2022 11:00

Security Guarantees

I guess Russia's actions assured a new rush to nuclear proliferation.
China was already expanding its nuclear force.
No doubt everyone who has not got them will increase efforts.
India and Pakistan will probably want to upgrade their existing etc.

After violating of the most historic groundbreaking security guarantees.
Look who wants one now.
Its just posturing to say the West are being mean again.
Poor us defenseless behind our Satin Nukes, Nuclear engined Doomsday Nukes, etc, etc,
threatening to wipe whole countries from the map.

That the anti-nuclear and pro-peace groups have not jumped all over Russia for stuffing up any prospect of anyone disarming again,
Tossing Ukraine under the bus for its historic example to the world.

Did not even make 30 years.

tdgeek

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#3006559 6-Dec-2022 18:17

Watching the news tonight. Russia is complaining that Ukraine is attacking Russian territory. Bizzare to say the least.

linw

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#3006561 6-Dec-2022 18:21

A couple of strikes on military targets is bad. Many hundreds of strikes on civilians is good.

The mind boggles.

wellygary

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#3006955 7-Dec-2022 15:54

I don't think people in NZ have any idea of the wider impact of this war on Europe ...|
Sure we complain that the prices of petrol has gone up , But I decided to have a look at power prices,

in the UK , the government has capped prices at

34.0p/kWh (pence per kilowatt hour) for electricity and 10.3p/kWh for gas, inclusive of VAT, from 1 October 2022 through to March 2023""

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/energy-bills-support/energy-bills-support-factsheet-8-september-2022

Thats, ~60c NZ / UNIT for power and ~20c or gas

Germany is similar, at 62c/unit electricity and 19c unit for gas...

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/german-government-approves-price-cap-gas-and-electricity

People in NZ would be rioting if we had to face prices like that....

Even Australia are facing a 50% increase in power prices in 2023, as coal and gas prices flow through....

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