Ukraine War discussion

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547 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3013930 26-Dec-2022 00:32

It does concern me somewhat to see how low the contribution is from European Union Countries when compared to the USA. Surely Europe has a lot to gain gain by stepping up some more.

Tinkerisk

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#3013932 26-Dec-2022 05:43

Bluntj:

It does concern me somewhat to see how low the contribution is from European Union Countries when compared to the USA. Surely Europe has a lot to gain gain by stepping up some more.

Yepp, but don't worry too much, we'll send you the 1,036,135 Ukrainian refugees we took in and fed in 2022 alone in Germany so we can spend more money on weapons and send them to Ukraine after recently realizing that our own ammunition supply would only last for 2-3 days in the event of a Russian attack.

Any more questions from the vacation paradise on the other side of the world? 🤫 … so tired …

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gzt

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#3013986 26-Dec-2022 09:32

Bluntj: how low the contribution is from European Union Countries when compared to the USA.

As a percentage of GDP the picture is different:

tdgeek

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#3014117 26-Dec-2022 20:25

Russia is prepared to resume gas supplies to Europe via the Yamal-Europe gas pipeline, which was previously stopped for political reasons, Russia’s Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak told Russian state news agency TASS on Sunday.

Perhaps a humanitarian offer from Russia, or not....

Technofreak

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#3014119 26-Dec-2022 21:19

tdgeek:

Russia is prepared to resume gas supplies to Europe via the Yamal-Europe gas pipeline, which was previously stopped for political reasons, Russia’s Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak told Russian state news agency TASS on Sunday.

Perhaps a humanitarian offer from Russia, or not....

From a lot of articles I've been reading, humanitarian and Russia don't go in the same sentence. I'd say your "or not" part is is more probably correct.

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tdgeek

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#3014121 26-Dec-2022 21:43

Technofreak:

From a lot of articles I've been reading, humanitarian and Russia don't go in the same sentence. I'd say your "or not" part is is more probably correct.

Yes, hence the ...

In other news Putin says again that he is ready to negotiate. Great. As all "wars" (his words) are resolved by negotiation. But as we all know, his negotiation is not a negotiation, it is just demands. UKR won't give up a 1/4 acre. They in fact can't now, neither can the West/allies

Technofreak

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#3014136 26-Dec-2022 21:53

With Putin's "offer" of negotiation the cynic in me thinks Putin realises he is about to lose all the gains Russia has made in Ukraine since February 2022 plus lose Crimea. By offering to negotiate I think he hopes to be able to keep these ill-gotten gains in return for calling off his troops.

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neb

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#3014142 26-Dec-2022 22:45

tdgeek:
In other news Putin says again that he is ready to negotiate.

Sure: Ukraine surrenders unconditionally, agrees to become part of Russia, and pay Russia war reparations for all the damage it's caused to Russian equipment. Then Putin agrees to stop shelling Ukrainian cities.

Well, once all the Ukrainian political leaders and other war criminals have been liquidated, that is.

Bluntj

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Ultimate Geek

#3014146 26-Dec-2022 23:24

I would like to see Putin exterminated in some way eg jail for life or assassinated. His rule must end somehow.

kingdragonfly

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#3014196 27-Dec-2022 10:12

freitasm

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#3014209 27-Dec-2022 10:56

Putin says Russia ready to negotiate over Ukraine, Kyiv says Moscow doesn't want talks | Reuters

MOSCOW, Dec 25 (Reuters) - Russia is ready to negotiate with all parties involved in the war in Ukraine but Kyiv and its Western backers have refused to engage in talks, President Vladimir Putin said in an interview aired on Sunday.

The Kremlin says it will fight until all its aims are achieved while Kyiv says it will not rest until every Russian soldier is ejected from all of its territory.

"We are ready to negotiate with everyone involved about acceptable solutions, but that is up to them - we are not the ones refusing to negotiate, they are," Putin told Rossiya 1 state television.

What about Putin withdrawal all Russian troops before the talks start, including from other Ukrainian territories annexed before this war?

Then Ukraine can get into the talks and the only thing to "negotiate" is how much Russia will pay for war reparations.

That should be the extent of the "talks".

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ezbee

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#3014310 27-Dec-2022 15:05

The aid given by Country-GDP shown in graph above.
The top contributors are those closest to Russia.
Who would be in a better position to judge the risk of letting Russia/Putin have what they want.
Those closest to them with deepest understanding?

Their populations have also extensively fund-raised for support of refugees, humanitarian assistance in Ukraine and even combat equipment.

They know more than most what is at stake.

Prime minister of Estonia has described how an ex Soviet Leader described to her Russian negotiation.

1/ Demand ( not ask) for maximum of something you have no right to.
2/ Present Ultimatums to their demands and threaten everyone repeatedly.
3/ Concede nothing.
4/ Wait for West to give you something that you did not have before.

That way you get everything you want plus extra probably 1/2 to 1/3
more than what you would have.

The Golden Horde would have approved except for.
Once that is done, after victory feast is over, rinse and repeat.

Putin and Krill You keep what you Kill.

On Gas perhaps Russia is worried that if Europe gets long term supply contracts and re-arranges its energy infrastructure there may be a much lessor place for Russian Oil/Gass.

At least not at previous levels, so it hands out a carrot of dependance.
Its to moderate and delay investment in alternatives?

kingdragonfly

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#3015169 29-Dec-2022 19:50

Twiiter

"I don't think Ukraine is hitting airfields deep inside of Russia with the Tu-141. However I am not above saying that is the truth. It hilarious to think Russia doesn't detect a 7 ton steel rocket ship from some 1950s sci-fi movie flying for over a hour across their airspace."

kingdragonfly

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#3015173 29-Dec-2022 20:01

Happens about once a week. One died this week in Indian, of a "heart attack", but somehow the heart attack caused him to bleed profusely..

Wikipedia: 2022 Russian businessmen mystery deaths

itxtme

2102 posts

Uber Geek

#3015204 29-Dec-2022 23:58

Tinkerisk:

Yepp, but don't worry too much, we'll send you the 1,036,135 Ukrainian refugees we took in and fed in 2022 alone in Germany so we can spend more money on weapons and send them to Ukraine after recently realizing that our own ammunition supply would only last for 2-3 days in the event of a Russian attack.

Any more questions from the vacation paradise on the other side of the world? 🤫 … so tired …

Frankly I find this response flippant. I have butted heads with you here before over this, but you tend to ignore the core responses, stating that was last government and frankly thats a cop out . Germany has the biggest GDP in Europe. Germany made that GDP with cheap Russian gas continuing to be the key European manufacturing hub. Germany was weak against Russia in 2014, and in fact built another (since destroyed) gas pipe line despite the annexation of Crimea. This weakness gave Russia the belief to invade again in 2022.

Taking the Refugees is commendable, but what is clear is that they only exist due to the weakness of 2014. What is also clear is that when better weapons arrived (HIMARS) Gepards (for drones), Ukraine was effective in recapturing territory and refugees returned home. So can Germany do better by providing/funding more weapons?- yes. Do they have a moral leg to stand on saying they have done enough - I think that leg is wobbly based on the political choices made over the last 10 years.

The latest talk is that European partners are blocking ATACMS from being released, I truly hope this is not true. The faster Ukraine gets the weapons they need the faster they push Russia out of their country, and the faster you will no longer need to lay claim on the refugees being housed in yours.

Jan to Nov in Billions spend for weapons - to GDP. Column 4 shows you what you need to see

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