Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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2691 posts

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#3088747 12-Jun-2023 07:32

Listening to the Greens leadership talking gives me the impression they don't understand or don't care. As you say, it's simple eat the rich dog whistle.

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GV27

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#3088750 12-Jun-2023 07:52

johno1234: Listening to the Greens leadership talking gives me the impression they don't understand or don't care. As you say, it's simple eat the rich dog whistle.

It's the constant whinging about making people pay a 'fair share' and then finding a way to make the people who pay close to nothing pay even less, and the people who pay most of the tax pay even more that does my head it.

It's an act that parties should drop. If you need more revenue to fund services, say so. Don't just try for misdirection while you float a policy that does the exact opposite of the thing you're trying to achieve. Put the zero tax-rate money into the services that people who earn that kind of money are super reliant on.

The zero tax rate system is also a pretty inefficient way to allocate tax relief, given you have to give it to literally everyone and they're talking about doing it at half the levels the Australians do. It smacks of typical Green thinking: Other places have this kind of tax system, let's copy it without understanding the mechanics or the why of how it works.

Technofreak

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#3088762 12-Jun-2023 08:31

The Greens are idealists. Very rarely anything they promote will actually work in the real world.

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sir1963

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#3088767 12-Jun-2023 08:42

Technofreak: The Greens are idealists. Very rarely anything they promote will actually work in the real world.

This election will be about who I dislike least.

gzt

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#3088838 12-Jun-2023 09:45

GV27: Greens have launched a wealth tax - and given Hipkins is going to need the Greens, it's going to be an interesting election.

The Greens also have a $1500 tax cut for everyone earning less than NZ$125,000. That does make it interesting.

sir1963

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#3088840 12-Jun-2023 09:50

gzt:
GV27: Greens have launched a wealth tax - and given Hipkins is going to need the Greens, it's going to be an interesting election.

The Greens also have a $1500 tax cut for everyone earning less than NZ$125,000. That does make it interesting.

Not really. I dont want a tax reduction. That money will do sod all for me, but a HEAP of those reductions combined will do a LOT of good in education.

Rikkitic

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#3088927 12-Jun-2023 11:35

sir1963:

Technofreak: The Greens are idealists. Very rarely anything they promote will actually work in the real world.

This election will be about who I dislike least.

Every election is about who you dislike least. I will probably (reluctantly) vote for the greens again. Not because I want them to run things, which really would be a disaster, but because I see them as a way of keeping Labour honest.

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GV27

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#3088950 12-Jun-2023 12:13

Rikkitic:

Every election is about who you dislike least. I will probably (reluctantly) vote for the greens again. Not because I want them to run things, which really would be a disaster, but because I see them as a way of keeping Labour honest.

I may well end up voting Labour to keep the Greens out. It's a funny old world.

tdgeek

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#3089133 12-Jun-2023 17:37

Given the widespread debate here im keen to here what would be a good tax policy. And how would it be paid for (assuming it cost more)

tdgeek

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#3089134 12-Jun-2023 17:41

GV27:

I may well end up voting Labour to keep the Greens out. It's a funny old world.

Or vote National to keep ACT out?? Same issue. Should the voters choose supporting parties, then Greens and ACT have a lot of power, it will go beyond supply agreements. Hard Left and Alt Right. National or Labour could win but when it comes to Statutes and decisions they need to bow to Greens or ACT to pass anything.

Now that is interesting.

johno1234

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#3089136 12-Jun-2023 17:42

I don't know enough to answer. All I can say is I would not mind paying more tax to get more value. However my tax gets higher every year due to bracket creep, the national tax take gets higher every year, but roads are worse, hospital waiting times and availability of procedures is worse, crime is worse, affordability of living is worse. So I have no expectation whatsoever that increasing tax will make NZ a better place to live based on our politicians and parties and their policies.

sir1963

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#3089137 12-Jun-2023 17:47

johno1234:

I don't know enough to answer. All I can say is I would not mind paying more tax to get more value. However my tax gets higher every year due to bracket creep, the national tax take gets higher every year, but roads are worse, hospital waiting times and availability of procedures is worse, crime is worse, affordability of living is worse. So I have no expectation whatsoever that increasing tax will make NZ a better place to live based on our politicians and parties and their policies.

Yeah, but don't we have great off road cycle ways... /S

tdgeek

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#3089139 12-Jun-2023 17:54

johno1234:

I don't know enough to answer. All I can say is I would not mind paying more tax to get more value. However my tax gets higher every year due to bracket creep, the national tax take gets higher every year, but roads are worse, hospital waiting times and availability of procedures is worse, crime is worse, affordability of living is worse. So I have no expectation whatsoever that increasing tax will make NZ a better place to live based on our politicians and parties and their policies.

I agree 100%. NZ is a poor country. (allowing for another posters link to OECD stats)

We are small, very low economies of scale. We lived via agriculture, but wheat and mutton have gone by the wayside as has wool. We don't have minerals, so there is no Kiwi Rio Tinto here.

If increasing tax take wont probably make NZ a better place, how does decreasing tax take go?

End of the day we are poor, financially. Life style wise we are rich. Some may leave, weather is ok here, we dont have the same level of disasters as others have, not likely to be attacked.

There is no way to keep the wealthy, average or poor happy here . As everything is a problem. But look at other places to live globally (if you could), its ok here

ockel

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#3089142 12-Jun-2023 18:10

tdgeek:

I agree 100%. NZ is a poor country. (allowing for another posters link to OECD stats)

We are small, very low economies of scale. We lived via agriculture, but wheat and mutton have gone by the wayside as has wool. We don't have minerals, so there is no Kiwi Rio Tinto here.

If increasing tax take wont probably make NZ a better place, how does decreasing tax take go?

End of the day we are poor, financially. Life style wise we are rich. Some may leave, weather is ok here, we dont have the same level of disasters as others have, not likely to be attacked.

There is no way to keep the wealthy, average or poor happy here . As everything is a problem. But look at other places to live globally (if you could), its ok here

We dont have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem. The Government accounts for 30% of GDP. It is the largest employer, the largest landlord and the largest spender by a country mile.

The key question is do we actually get value for money? For example. as I stated in a previous post we spend $22bn on health (excluding COVID spend) - thats up 50% on 2017. For the extra $7bn do we get better outcomes in hospitals? More beds, doctors or nurses? Pharmac has had a 50% increase in its budget since 2017 but does it seem like there is better access to pharmaceuticals? Where does all the extra money go?

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tdgeek

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#3089144 12-Jun-2023 18:24

ockel:

We dont have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem. The Government accounts for 30% of GDP. It is the largest employer, the largest landlord and the largest spender by a country mile.

The key question is do we actually get value for money? For example. as I stated in a previous post we spend $22bn on health (excluding COVID spend) - thats up 50% on 2017. For the extra $7bn do we get better outcomes in hospitals? More beds, doctors or nurses? Pharmac has had a 50% increase in its budget since 2017 but does it seem like there is better access to pharmaceuticals? Where does all the extra money go?

We dont have a revenue problem. Is your opinion.

Health spending is up 50%. Yes, where has that gone? Thin air? Health system spent it, where?

Pharmac is up, where has that gone? Pharmac spent it, where?

I get your point, but it assumes all these $ has gone to admin not anything else.

Perhaps we could tell Health and Pharmac to be more effficient as we are cutting their spending, makes financial sense...

I will use the low but not too low income analogy. We need the plumbing, painting, gutters, roof looked at. Plus the TV etc. But we cannot afford all of those so where do we start?

IMO we are revenue limited. Mutton, wheat and wool have gone. Not replaced by gold, diamonds or cobalt. We have beef and diary that we pay global prices for. That is how how our clean green NZ has gone. Backwards

Before you spend, you need income to spend from. If your opinion is correct, then we can cut Health and Pharmac spending and be better off... Slightly tongue in cheek, maybe there needs to be a highly detailed breakdown of spending so the voters can decide

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