Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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2031 posts

Uber Geek

#3089149 12-Jun-2023 18:36

tdgeek:

Before you spend, you need income to spend from. If your opinion is correct, then we can cut Health and Pharmac spending and be better off... Slightly tongue in cheek, maybe there needs to be a highly detailed breakdown of spending so the voters can decide

We have the income. More than $140bn of revenue. Thats a lot of coin. We need to spend smarter. Work out what we're spending it on and justify that. For example DOC is going to be over budget so they hired an external party to review their spending as executive has little faith that senior management will review its spending properly. Treasury should be doing that review not PWC (or whomever). HealthNZ is going to cut 1600 duplicate jobs but postponed it, why? Are those people still needed for those duplicate jobs? Its inefficient and its poor management plus poor governance. Thats the politicians role - to govern, for the people.

In any organisation - especially bloated corporates and governments there is plenty of wasteful spending. From time to time corporates get the blowtorch or executives lose their jobs and shareholders vote uneconomic share prices to the floor. We NEVER have the same rigor in government spending - in any country including NZ.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

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tdgeek

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#3089151 12-Jun-2023 18:45

ockel:

We have the income. More than $140bn of revenue. Thats a lot of coin. We need to spend smarter. Work out what we're spending it on and justify that. For example DOC is going to be over budget so they hired an external party to review their spending as executive has little faith that senior management will review its spending properly. Treasury should be doing that review not PWC (or whomever). HealthNZ is going to cut 1600 duplicate jobs but postponed it, why? Are those people still needed for those duplicate jobs? Its inefficient and its poor management plus poor governance. Thats the politicians role - to govern, for the people.

In any organisation - especially bloated corporates and governments there is plenty of wasteful spending. From time to time corporates get the blowtorch or executives lose their jobs and shareholders vote uneconomic share prices to the floor. We NEVER have the same rigor in government spending - in any country including NZ.

Ok, we have the income so we are sorted...

Thats the politicians role - to govern, for the people. That means we need to assess all senior appointments, i.e. CEO's as clearly they are not doing their job?

Odd to see CEO's being useless, as they must be? They get given too much in the budget and still waste it?

140 Bill is a lot of coin. Is it enough or not enough? You seem to feel it is enough based on wastage. So do we need to replace most CEO's in Govt Depts, and cut their budget, so then we can build more roads and press on with climate change costs?

No, Im not bitching.

sir1963

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#3089160 12-Jun-2023 19:14

tdgeek:

I agree 100%. NZ is a poor country. (allowing for another posters link to OECD stats)

We are small, very low economies of scale. We lived via agriculture, but wheat and mutton have gone by the wayside as has wool. We don't have minerals, so there is no Kiwi Rio Tinto here.

If increasing tax take wont probably make NZ a better place, how does decreasing tax take go?

End of the day we are poor, financially. Life style wise we are rich. Some may leave, weather is ok here, we dont have the same level of disasters as others have, not likely to be attacked.

There is no way to keep the wealthy, average or poor happy here . As everything is a problem. But look at other places to live globally (if you could), its ok here

After Dairy (via Fontera) the next biggest export earner for NZ is high tech.

We need to be doing FAR more with high tech, but we repeatedly get governments who underfund Science and Technology at Universities.

Multiple Universities are looking a dumping Physics, Chemistry etc Majors, they will move into "service teaching" mode for other courses.

Without high quality graduates our tech industry will either

a) import employees

b) move overseas to where business conditions are much better

c) slowly die as they are out competed on innovation and wages.

Farming and Tourism are a dead end.

johno1234

2691 posts

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#3089164 12-Jun-2023 19:24

Not sure farming is a dead end. It continues to prop up nz. We do it better than most and we have plenty of water and a year round good climate. The world will always want quality food.

sir1963

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#3089171 12-Jun-2023 19:42

johno1234: Not sure farming is a dead end. It continues to prop up nz. We do it better than most and we have plenty of water and a year round good climate. The world will always want quality food.

The highest $ per ton of meat, when inflation adjusted was in the early 1900s.

If the land was less ravaged, less over stocked, less fertilised , our production would decrease but the land and the waterways would be better for it.

The cost of the carbon economy will only increase, making our low profits goods either too expensive or unable to be shipped.

We should be pushing for high tech, reduce farming to what we need to feed ourselves, and put marginal land back into Native forests.

johno1234

2691 posts

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#3089174 12-Jun-2023 19:50

Or do high tech farming. As we always have done.

sir1963

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#3089201 12-Jun-2023 20:28

johno1234: Or do high tech farming. As we always have done.

Apple computers tax paid profits is 3-4 times higher than our entire GDP, and thats with about 100k employees, ie about the size of Hamilton.

gzt

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#3089220 12-Jun-2023 21:02

tdgeek: Should the voters choose supporting parties, then Greens and ACT have a lot of power, it will go beyond supply agreements. Hard Left and Alt Right. National or Labour could win but when it comes to Statutes and decisions they need to bow to Greens or ACT to pass anything.

Coalitions have rarely been contentious in New Zealand with the exception of NZ First breakups. Agreements have generally worked well. Parties have mostly stayed in their lane and made good contributions. ACT is in rising mode and as such an unknown quantity this time around but that's a topic for the National thread.

tdgeek

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#3089239 13-Jun-2023 06:27

gzt:
Coalitions have rarely been contentious in New Zealand with the exception of NZ First breakups. Agreements have generally worked well. Parties have mostly stayed in their lane and made good contributions. ACT is in rising mode and as such an unknown quantity this time around but that's a topic for the National thread.

Agreed, as they just had a small following that got the major party over the line. Got a few small wins to keep them happy. If Greens or ACT had a big turnout, Labour and National would have to dig deep, well past supply agreements. They would be a fully fledged partner than just a convenient top up for an election win.

GV27

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#3089246 13-Jun-2023 07:36

The PGF is one of the most shameful instances of pork-barreling in NZ political history. It continues to be an embarrassment.

https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/122476/auditor-general-lacks-confidence-provincial-growth-fund-money-being-well-spent

johno1234

2691 posts

Uber Geek

#3089287 13-Jun-2023 09:51

sir1963:

johno1234: Or do high tech farming. As we always have done.

Apple computers tax paid profits is 3-4 times higher than our entire GDP, and thats with about 100k employees, ie about the size of Hamilton.

Apple's net profit about $100 billion vs NZ GDP about $250 billion both USD.

Not sure why this is significant though. NZ is a small country so comparing it to one of the planet's highest earning corporations is a bit meaningless. We cannot ever be Apple as we will never attract their investor base.

Fonterra alone has revenues of NZ$22 billion and is the largest dairy exporter in the world and NZ's single largest earner on the revenue side of our balance of trade. It is something to be celebrated and looked after it as if it is damaged, we are absolutely screwed. Not saying we shouldn't diversify, but for the foreseeable future, it is the best thing we've got.

johno1234

2691 posts

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#3089289 13-Jun-2023 09:54

GV27:

The PGF is one of the most shameful instances of pork-barreling in NZ political history. It continues to be an embarrassment.

https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/122476/auditor-general-lacks-confidence-provincial-growth-fund-money-being-well-spent

The "Public Interest Journalism Fund" is worse. At least the PGF had an appearance of good intentions behind the incompetent vote buying. A government paying cash to the supposedly independent media to follow its rules is evil.

quickymart

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#3089362 13-Jun-2023 11:41

johno1234:

The "Public Interest Journalism Fund" is worse. At least the PGF had an appearance of good intentions behind the incompetent vote buying. A government paying cash to the supposedly independent media to follow its rules is evil.

I've seen lots of articles critical of the government that were paid for by that fund. Have you got some proof of your statement?

sir1963

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#3089458 13-Jun-2023 13:45

johno1234:

[

Apple's net profit about $100 billion vs NZ GDP about $250 billion both USD.

Not sure why this is significant though. NZ is a small country so comparing it to one of the planet's highest earning corporations is a bit meaningless. We cannot ever be Apple as we will never attract their investor base.

Fonterra alone has revenues of NZ$22 billion and is the largest dairy exporter in the world and NZ's single largest earner on the revenue side of our balance of trade. It is something to be celebrated and looked after it as if it is damaged, we are absolutely screwed. Not saying we shouldn't diversify, but for the foreseeable future, it is the best thing we've got.

NZ is unique in that we export 90% plus of our dairy products.

The dairy industry in India produces 22% of the worlds Dairy production with NZ being 10th supplying just 2.4% of the worlds dairy

https://www.atlasbig.com/en-cn/countries-by-milk-production

As far as "dairy companies", Fontera is the 6th largest at US$14.8B and Lactalis in France being 1st with US$26.7B

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_dairy_companies

Climate change is going to impact NZ primary produce

Food miles is going to impact NZs exports

The cost of international shipping is going to impact NZs exports

Sitting on our hands waiting for the disaster to hit before we do anything in case it upsets farmers is tantamount to suicide, we MUST diversify NOW.

Canterbury Clothing UK owned

Rocketlabs US owned

Magratech German Owned

F&P Whiteware China owned

Weta Workshops sold to Unity

All Blacks Partially US owned

NZ banks pretty much Australian owned

Glaxo (started in of all places Bunnythorpe outside of Palmerston North) now part of GlaxoSmithKleine , no longer manufactures in NZ

Xero, no longer on the NZX, but on the Australian stock exchange, now has an engineering site in India

Trademe UK owned

etc etc etc etc

Do you see the Trend here ?

Every time a NZ company gets to a certain size, big for NZ, but small internationally, we let it get sold overseas and then buy the products back off them.

We MUST start protecting NZ technology from overseas capture. We can NOT expand primary produce any more (it should probably be smaller), but technology has no such hard ceiling.

We MUST keep

F&P Healthcare

Rakon

Gallagher Group

Douglas Pharmaceuticals

Datacom

Tait

Etc etc etc

We may never have an "Apple", but we can certainly have 1000 smaller niche companies, But we can NOT achieve this if we keep letting NZ IP being sold overseas, NZ tech companies being sold overseas, and NZ Science and Technology education and funding being cut year on year with below inflation funding increases. Worse is the fact that STEM is seen as "hard" and kids see themselves as an "influencer" on TikTok or what ever. So much IT/Software industry is based on the getting big enough for a large US company to buy them out so they can retire (eg Weta bought for $1.6 Billion).

GV27

5873 posts

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#3089474 13-Jun-2023 14:50

I'm more worried about core infrastructure being sold off or provisioned to overseas providers to the extent that the country is effectively renting its own productivity from outsiders.

Our inability to build anything of note in recent years to an acceptable standard (roads, highways) if at all (light rail, passenger rail other than the Waikato-Auckland commuter service) etc is hugely concerning, given we are now facing a future where what little infra we have will be subject to climate-driven weather damage. Do we even know how to repair what we have?

The technical know-how is not the issue, it's actually getting the job done.

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