Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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1726 posts

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#3090747 16-Jun-2023 14:27

sen8or:

When you look at Govt revenues over the last 10 years -

Its clearly not from a lack of not enough money coming in, approx an additional $30bio available to them from 2017 to now and they are expecting it to grow significantly -

Careful management of $ is required, not achievements measured simply by the $ invested

Haven't we added a million people in the last ten years? That's some extra money right there.

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ockel

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#3090764 16-Jun-2023 15:38

mudguard:

sen8or:

When you look at Govt revenues over the last 10 years -

Its clearly not from a lack of not enough money coming in, approx an additional $30bio available to them from 2017 to now and they are expecting it to grow significantly -

Careful management of $ is required, not achievements measured simply by the $ invested

Haven't we added a million people in the last ten years? That's some extra money right there.

Only about 800k from 2013 to 2023. But your point is clearly made.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

ockel

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#3090767 16-Jun-2023 15:47

tdgeek:

sen8or:

Healthcare, like education seems to be one of those places that are perpetually unhappy. I can't remember a period where there wasn't someone bleating about pay and/or working conditions from within the sector, and regardless of which colour Government was in power at the time, they weren't doing enough. Is this just another example of Govt run departments simply being incapable of delivering outcomes efficiently as they are tied down in bureaucracy?

IMO there is not the funds available to fully rework any of these sectors. In fact if you fully reworked one of them, the rest get left untouched for another decade and more

What's the typical budget surplus? 3 Bill? Cant do much with that

Now, if you look at all the past Govts you could say these ones were good these others not so much, but that all of them have let these sectors down, tells me that its not due to choice, its due to $. And to add insult to inguiry, the news is all about tax cuts, tax thresholds etc which will reduce the available funds (no, i'm not bagging tax cuts etc)

Healthcare is incredibly inefficient. Top heavy management structure. Disparate and non-communicative IT systems (mostly running software from 10 years ago), poor HR, fiefdoms with respect to funding (both within regions and vertically with community health). Patient management (hospitals dealing with patients that should be seen in community health), poor time management for operating theatres (cf private hospitals (start times, turnaround times, staff breaks, end times - lists finish early rather than completing the workload incase it runs late).

Its incredibly close to the NHS system in terms of inefficiencies. It should be more like Australia with Medicare with a similar economic structure (2% levy thats ringfenced from political spending) and rebates for private insurance.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

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#3090828 16-Jun-2023 18:00

Ok, lets draw up a list of infrastructure, education, health, cyclones, climate change actions (not mitigation but moving communities) . List the $ that are required to fix them. As they are inefficient lets list how many jobs go.

Not being picky as in a normal business this is what you do.

How much will all the cost?

Where will the funds come from?

Should we borrow and fix it? Or print money and fix it? Or chip away each budget? (The latter is why we are where we are at today)

Either way its like my fave analogy. A lower income family in their owned home. This and that and that to fix, cannot afford it

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#3090830 16-Jun-2023 18:02

ockel:

Healthcare is incredibly inefficient. Top heavy management structure. Disparate and non-communicative IT systems (mostly running software from 10 years ago), poor HR, fiefdoms with respect to funding (both within regions and vertically with community health). Patient management (hospitals dealing with patients that should be seen in community health), poor time management for operating theatres (cf private hospitals (start times, turnaround times, staff breaks, end times - lists finish early rather than completing the workload incase it runs late).

Its incredibly close to the NHS system in terms of inefficiencies. It should be more like Australia with Medicare with a similar economic structure (2% levy thats ringfenced from political spending) and rebates for private insurance.

How do we fix it? Time and dollars. Its been like this forever.

gzt

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#3090843 16-Jun-2023 19:12

sir1963: Because of all the bureaucracy involved, including having to repeat entire medical work ups to try and get patients to see specialists,

There's two sides to that. I was recently referred to a specialist. First consult it very much appeared the specialist did not provide exactly the service the GP may have assumed. This did not bother me too much as I was prepared for an exam and I considered it useful anyway and had budgeted etc. No insurance and private specialist.

If that had been a referral to a specialist in the national system that would have been considered a wasted surgical consult slot for an incorrectly triaged patient.

If that happens frequently in the national system it causes over-long waiting lists and blown budgets and more than one surgical consult. So, public hospitals avoid that outcome. I can understand why the public system triages more to avoid this. That said, there is a balance, and it's always a difficult one imo.

ockel

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#3090847 16-Jun-2023 19:40

tdgeek:

Ok, lets draw up a list of infrastructure, education, health, cyclones, climate change actions (not mitigation but moving communities) . List the $ that are required to fix them. As they are inefficient lets list how many jobs go.

Not being picky as in a normal business this is what you do.

How much will all the cost?

Where will the funds come from?

Should we borrow and fix it? Or print money and fix it? Or chip away each budget? (The latter is why we are where we are at today)

Either way its like my fave analogy. A lower income family in their owned home. This and that and that to fix, cannot afford it

Well 400 jobs at the combined polytech are to go. Its just 4% of the workforce. Unions are incensed.

And 1600 jobs at Health NZ are to go but delayed because the unions are incensed.

Auckland Council is shedding less than 5% of its workforce. Unions are incensed.

Every Government department in these times should have to shed 10% of their workforce. Thats not uncommon with many organisations that are doing it tough globally (every other economy is doing it better than NZ but reacting accordingly). But if you worry about offending those that represent the workers nothing will change and the inefficient bureaucracy grows even more inefficient.

Start to recognise that cutting jobs is good for the organisation (public or private) and good for the health of the country. The tourism industry handled it. The hospitality industry handled it. The airlines handled it. But public sector - Oh No, thats not right!

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

gzt

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#3090862 16-Jun-2023 20:57

And 1600 jobs at Health NZ are to go but delayed because the unions are incensed.

It's pretty hard to know what was going to happen originally, it was all 'leaks', and then after that it was hard to know what effect if any the submissions or public statements or whatever from unions had on those plans.

mudguard

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#3090891 17-Jun-2023 06:36

ockel:

Start to recognise that cutting jobs is good for the organisation (public or private) and good for the health of the country. The tourism industry handled it. The hospitality industry handled it. The airlines handled it. But public sector - Oh No, thats not right!

The issue I have with making comparisons to state run organisations to private organisations, is that often the state has to make decisions that aren't efficient or financially prudent.

You can take my mother and I. Three years ago I broke my hip at age 38, my mother needed two new hips for more natural reasons, rather than falling off her mountainbike.

Now I was patched up, or rather screwed back together and no doubt bumped a few down the list who were having their hip done that day.

From an economic point of view, you could look at me and go, tick, going to be working the next 25 years or so, no problem. Take my mother and go, well, very close to retirement, keep her on the painkillers. Much cheaper than surgery.

It's the same with amenities like libraries and swimming pools etc. I'm not saying there can't be improvements made, but the state simply can't be as ruthless as a private organisation.

tdgeek

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#3090897 17-Jun-2023 07:58

ockel:

Well 400 jobs at the combined polytech are to go. Its just 4% of the workforce. Unions are incensed.

And 1600 jobs at Health NZ are to go but delayed because the unions are incensed.

Auckland Council is shedding less than 5% of its workforce. Unions are incensed.

Every Government department in these times should have to shed 10% of their workforce. Thats not uncommon with many organisations that are doing it tough globally (every other economy is doing it better than NZ but reacting accordingly). But if you worry about offending those that represent the workers nothing will change and the inefficient bureaucracy grows even more inefficient.

Start to recognise that cutting jobs is good for the organisation (public or private) and good for the health of the country. The tourism industry handled it. The hospitality industry handled it. The airlines handled it. But public sector - Oh No, thats not right!

So these job cuts will pay for "Ok, lets draw up a list of infrastructure, education, health, cyclones, climate change actions (not mitigation but moving communities)"

Cool

Technofreak

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#3090903 17-Jun-2023 08:38

New Zealand is the only country in the developed world that's in recession. Now there's one thing this government as achieved. It's not something they're telling us though.

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gzt

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#3090919 17-Jun-2023 10:43

Technofreak: New Zealand is the only country in the developed world that's in recession.

Incorrect.

GV27

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#3091830 19-Jun-2023 05:54

tdgeek:

So these job cuts will pay for "Ok, lets draw up a list of infrastructure, education, health, cyclones, climate change actions (not mitigation but moving communities)"

Cool

We literally do not know how to spend the money to fix those things, so taking taxes in the name of paying for them (when all you're doing is creating more policy wonk jobs and people to defend not having done something about them) is getting close to immoral.

GV27

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#3092385 20-Jun-2023 08:13

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300909434/inquiry-into-banking-sector-to-be-announced

Gosh, not another impotent market study announcement that will result in 'monitoring' (i.e. more analyst roles for Wellington desk-jockeys but no actual market changing findings). We're being fleeced, but it turns out, not really.

Maybe they should have an investigation into the use of market studies to head off bad weeks for the Labour Party.

ockel

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#3092398 20-Jun-2023 09:31

GV27:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300909434/inquiry-into-banking-sector-to-be-announced

Gosh, not another impotent market study announcement that will result in 'monitoring' (i.e. more analyst roles for Wellington desk-jockeys but no actual market changing findings). We're being fleeced, but it turns out, not really.

Maybe they should have an investigation into the use of market studies to head off bad weeks for the Labour Party.

The ever-so-quiet Sam Stubbs was interviewed on Breakfast this morning. He highlighted the interest rate gap in NZ was greater than that of Australia (to the tune of 20bps). But as every business owner knows - a higher gross margin in one jurisdication does not in itself lead to higher profitability (or higher ROIC). At no stage was Aust vs NZ banking profitability discussed or Aust vs NZ ROIC.

The Royal Banking Commission was also briefly discussed, which Stubbs noted lifted the lid on banking practices. For those interested the recommendations removed the moral hazard between (mostly) financial services sales for the bank instead of for the customer. Some fees were eliminated but not many. And there was no recommendation regarding the interest charged (to borrowers or lenders) nor the level of profitability within the industry nor the level of competition.

Simply put its another beat-up on business akin to the supermarkets (who are less profitable in NZ than their Australian counterparts on an EBIT margin or ROIC level)

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

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