NZ 2023 Election Thread

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1508 posts

Uber Geek

#3123881 5-Sep-2023 15:41

gzt:
GV27: Robertson is prone to making all sorts of stupid claims - he's supposedly slating National's tax cuts as 'inflationary' but was happy to give people hundreds of dollars in helicopter payments.

I think you may be comparing national party tax policy to covid-19 economic survival strategy. Those are two very different things. Most first world economies experienced and are experiencing a period of high inflation after covid. NZ combined strategy did avoid economic destruction and most importantly for family and people that I love - it prevented a huge pile of dead people.

Pretty sure GV27 will be talking about the COL helicopter payments that Labour did for those earning under $70,000

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SirHumphreyAppleby

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#3123887 5-Sep-2023 15:51

ockel:

Roy Morgan poll for August is out. It hardly gets mentioned by the other media as its not their poll. But given its traditionally been the most accurate come polling day its worthy of scrutiny.

Minor parties are surging. National leaking to Act and Labour leaking to Greens. Labour continues to slide.

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/9332-nz-national-voting-intention-august-2023

The poll was mentioned on Newstalk ZB this morning during their news segments. They noted that Act polled higher in this poll than others, but the difference between National and Labour were consistent with other polls.

It would be great to see Act achieve 18% (opinions may vary). Interestingly, despite Act only polling 12.5% with women of all ages, they are the ones I am seeing abandon Labour and the Greens

tdgeek

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#3123890 5-Sep-2023 15:58

SirHumphreyAppleby:

It would be great to see Act achieve 18% (opinions may vary). Interestingly, despite Act only polling 12.5% with women of all ages, they are the ones I am seeing abandon Labour and the Greens

It will be interesting, as ACT is aggressive this campaign, often criticising National and often having oposing policies on some topics. With Seymour having far more nous than Luxon will ever have, and ACT on the rise, as is Seymour, ACT may get many of their policies through via the coalition negotiation. I suspect he will play hardball. As the cliche goes "it's my time" and he will definitely use it for his party

Rikkitic

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#3123903 5-Sep-2023 16:43

A National government seems to be the price we have to pay for having had a Labour one. I can live with it if I have to, but the thought of Peters returning to Parliament to play his stupid games and crap on journalists with his sneering sense of superiority when their jobs require them to ask him perfectly reasonable questions, fills me with despair. He is such a loathsome self-important dickhead. I may have to turn off the television news for the next three years. Maybe I will anyway.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#3123926 5-Sep-2023 18:42

Rikkitic:

A National government seems to be the price we have to pay for having had a Labour one. I can live with it if I have to, but the thought of Peters returning to Parliament to play his stupid games and crap on journalists with his sneering sense of superiority when their jobs require them to ask him perfectly reasonable questions, fills me with despair. He is such a loathsome self-important dickhead. I may have to turn off the television news for the next three years. Maybe I will anyway.

Yep. But because Labour is so bad, that all our ills are caused by Labour, and according to this thread and the others there were no "other" issues afoot, National will win this election, we all know that. What surprises me is that I expected to see Labour the positives, National the positives, lets vote on that. But all I see is bag Labour. That is all good, but where is "National will do this and that and New Zealand will be great again" None. But in these highly biased threads we are not seeing that. That is VERY noteworthy.

As another HIGHLY biased poster has posted, the minor parties are thriving. I said that weeks upon weeks ago. Peters is supposedly 5.5%. ACT is huge. Greens gained.

NZ First. Wont work with Labour, but they can as they will use the new leader as the escape clause. National is weak, they will not commit. Because if they have to, they will (so will Labour).

What irritates me is that the Covid and Ukraine effect is totally ignored. But Im fortunate that I dont financially care who wins. But I do financially care about those that cannot financially care for themselves or their family.

Im over 30 so no free fillings for me. I grow my own veges so they are already GST free! I think David Seymour is hard alt-right, so therefore useless, but his article today was true. NZ is not rich as we think we are, 100% correct. Its a pity this election is not about New Zealand, its about fillings, cheaper broccoli, tax cuts that make low income singles poorer, and a new housing boom

GV27

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#3124018 6-Sep-2023 06:11

tdgeek:

What irritates me is that the Covid and Ukraine effect is totally ignored. But Im fortunate that I dont financially care who wins. But I do financially care about those that cannot financially care for themselves or their family.

They're not 'totally ignored'. There's a tendency for some to try and claim them as an excuse for everything. We had two years of rudderless, achievement-less government before Covid and they have simply continued on that trend, external factors be damned.

I suggest you take a look at this for an idea of the kind of damage people can do when they have this excuse to hide behind:

https://croakingcassandra.com/2022/12/16/at-it-again/

As a side note, New Zealand is a tiny little country. We are always, always going to be at the mercy of external events. Singling them out and using an them as an excuse for the state our country is in now is only a recipe to accept the same sort of defective and muddled leadership we have today, and even worsening outcomes in future. External events will keep happening and we're going to have to deal with them. Our senior doctors on strike, our tax system, our crime rates - all our problems. All our problems to fix.

So it's not that I'm ignoring them, I'm just looking to use them as an excuse for things they have little impact on.

tdgeek

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#3124025 6-Sep-2023 07:13

GV27:

They're not 'totally ignored'. There's a tendency for some to try and claim them as an excuse for everything. We had two years of rudderless, achievement-less government before Covid and they have simply continued on that trend, external factors be damned.

I suggest you take a look at this for an idea of the kind of damage people can do when they have this excuse to hide behind:

https://croakingcassandra.com/2022/12/16/at-it-again/

As a side note, New Zealand is a tiny little country. We are always, always going to be at the mercy of external events. Singling them out and using an them as an excuse for the state our country is in now is only a recipe to accept the same sort of defective and muddled leadership we have today, and even worsening outcomes in future. External events will keep happening and we're going to have to deal with them. Our senior doctors on strike, our tax system, our crime rates - all our problems. All our problems to fix.

So it's not that I'm ignoring them, I'm just looking to use them as an excuse for things they have little impact on.

"I'm just looking to use them as an excuse for things they have little impact on."

Nailed it. Which has been the theme in this thread for an age. Given we have an election, how about some balance, lets hear about Nationals rock solid leadership and lack of muddling? About Luxon being good to great, about how Willis is the key to our economic future. About the raft of highly skilled and talented other soon to be Ministers. Its been all talk till now as they are the Opposition, and now they start releasing policies its all falling apart. The past silly ideas that Luxon rolled back on, or they we misinterpreted plain english is playing out in real time now. Harsh?? Read any media commentary. If all our ills are Labours fault, I assume was hearts and roses before 2017, so a vibrant and talented National Govt can fix that easily, as its home grown??? Yeah, nah.

tdgeek

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#3124030 6-Sep-2023 07:36

This

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132860241/nationals-chris-bishop-promises-change-around-kinga-ora

Yet another big idea, fix, fix, fix. But the policy isnt released just tidbits to look good. And they have it wrong, Kainga Ora is actually working, experts say. Yet the apparent fix is to sack people. The previous view was let the market sort it out, thats ludicrous, and as usual, rolled back to this new idea. Im just seeing too many quick ideas that once they hit the media, the experts in the sector end up correcting the new great idea. National needs to learn what due diligence actually means. Too much emphasis on quick big ideas to get votes, instead of well worked out plans, to get the votes.

GV27

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#3124035 6-Sep-2023 08:18

tdgeek:

If all our ills are Labours fault, I assume was hearts and roses before 2017, so a vibrant and talented National Govt can fix that easily, as its home grown??? Yeah, nah.

Why don't we ask the people living in emergency accommodation hotels for months on end how they think everything is going.

Bluntj

550 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3124042 6-Sep-2023 08:43

Rikkitic:

A National government seems to be the price we have to pay for having had a Labour one. I can live with it if I have to, but the thought of Peters returning to Parliament to play his stupid games and crap on journalists with his sneering sense of superiority when their jobs require them to ask him perfectly reasonable questions, fills me with despair. He is such a loathsome self-important dickhead. I may have to turn off the television news for the next three years. Maybe I will anyway.

We are really a 2 party system so thats how it works. You should be blaming the incompetence of Labour that is allowing a change to occur. Personally I do not like MMP at all as it allows people like Winston into parliament with so much power.

At least FPP was totally democratic within your area of concern/electorate.

Rikkitic

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#3124043 6-Sep-2023 08:43

GV27:

Why don't we ask the people living in emergency accommodation hotels for months on end how they think everything is going.

Why do you keep blindly assuming National will do any better?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#3124047 6-Sep-2023 08:55

Rikkitic:

GV27:

Why don't we ask the people living in emergency accommodation hotels for months on end how they think everything is going.

Why do you keep blindly assuming National will do any better?

There are two major parties in this election but we only talk about one

GV27

5874 posts

Uber Geek

#3124050 6-Sep-2023 09:10

Rikkitic:

Why do you keep blindly assuming National will do any better?

Why do you save any meaningful scrutiny for people who suggest that they might?

Labour, if only held to the things they themselves promised to get elected, have been a colossal failure.

Easy to look the other way if you aren't impacted, but not much comfort to those who are.

But sure, I'm the one who is "blindly assuming" something.

tdgeek

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#3124144 6-Sep-2023 12:08

There was a post re IMF showoing how poor we are on one or more settings, must be the Chris Hipkins thread

Seems ok to me

Under Labour

The economy is 6.7% larger than before Covid. Since the depths of the Covid recession, New Zealand’s economy has grown by 10.2% compared to 8.8% for Australia, 7.6% for the US, 7.1% for the Euro Area and 6.1% for the UK, according to the IMF.
Unemployment below 4% for eight consecutive quarters
Strong Government finances: Affirmed last week by Fitch. Net debt of 18.9% of GDP, below Australia, the US, and the UK according to the IMF.
Seven trade agreements singed or upgraded; FTAs now cover almost three quarters of New Zealand’s export.

tdgeek

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#3124146 6-Sep-2023 12:11

On2or3wheels:

ockel:

Could you do me a small favour and list off the things that Labour has achieved?

They must have achieved quite a bit looking at the long list of policies National want to repeal.

12 I last read, maybe more now, but they won't. They are likely to repeal a couple of smaller things just to show they can. School lunches and related education things they already said they will keep that.

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