NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3107470 24-Jul-2023 10:35

GV27:

Probably not. I do not believe we have the political leadership, will or capability within the public sector itself to do some of what we used to consider fairly basic stuff.

Depends what you call basic ones. I'd say if you chose 20 people, their "ones" will each differ.

ezbee

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#3107591 24-Jul-2023 14:47

Well every time when the funding solution comes up to enable a Government to make those kinds of bold moves.

Then the old "Tax and Spend" campaigns, start up.

So I would blame the collective electorate that buys dog whistles of this kind.

Thereby making sure any leader or team that would be brave and decisive enough will never gain power.

Denmark, and Nordic states were not built on low marginal taxes.
Progressive tax rates going up to around 50% or more.
We don't have to go that far, but even a move of 2% on top tax inevitable causes wailing and gnashing of teeth.

GV27

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#3107597 24-Jul-2023 15:00

ezbee:

Well every time when the funding solution comes up to enable a Government to make those kinds of bold moves.

Then the old "Tax and Spend" campaigns, start up.

So I would blame the collective electorate that buys dog whistles of this kind.

Thereby making sure any leader or team that would be brave and decisive enough will never gain power.

Denmark, and Nordic states were not built on low marginal taxes.
Progressive tax rates going up to around 50% or more.
We don't have to go that far, but even a move of 2% on top tax inevitable causes wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I think if people were being offered the choice of Nordic levels of public services and quality, they'd take that deal.

Here, meanwhile, minimum wage will have you knocking on the door of a 30% bracket rate that hasn't shifted in over a decade.

sen8or

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#3107605 24-Jul-2023 15:28

I would happily forgo an election year lolly scramble of a tax break to support a Government that actually knew how to spend my tax dollar in a frugal, business like manner that achieved actual real world measurable results. I suspect that if you put it out there, more than a few would have a similar view.

When you get a Govt that spends countless millions on consultants and reviews that don't achieve anything and pour millions into zero sum gained pet projects, then I'lll quite happily argue that they need their income reducing as its simply wasteful and take my tax cut (not that they would ever offer one, they can't afford to).

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#3107649 24-Jul-2023 18:04

GV27:
I am bitterly disappointed that it will be one that hasn't earned it through having sensible policy platforms.

It'll be like Labour in the UK, keep your head down and don't say too much so you can't upset anyone and we'll sleepwalk to victory.

ezbee

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#3107671 24-Jul-2023 19:24

GV27

Chicken and egg...

Yeh Roger Douglass finally got his flat tax, and does not even know it.

If I heard a recent report correctly it may even be inverted due to ability to minimize tax if you are well capitalized.

Things need to be adjusted along the whole scale.

However take one area down the other area knows they are going up and its 'Tax and Spend' FUD all over again.
If you want to get elected better to do nothing and parcel out occasional 'Two dollar shop' tax cut every now and then.

Sleepwalking to victory seems to have advantages.
Our version is vague comments on imagined efficiencies that will enable cost cutting in areas like health, so a bag load of free money becomes available to spend on health.
I thought we did this already last time ?
Bring back social credit.

tdgeek

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#3107690 24-Jul-2023 19:50

sen8or:

When you get a Govt that spends countless millions on consultants and reviews that don't achieve anything and pour millions into zero sum gained pet projects, then I'lll quite happily argue that they need their income reducing as its simply wasteful and take my tax cut (not that they would ever offer one, they can't afford to).

Countless millions would make less than zero difference to the situation here.

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tdgeek

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#3107692 24-Jul-2023 19:56

ezbee:

GV27

Chicken and egg...

Yeh Roger Douglass finally got his flat tax, and does not even know it.

If I heard a recent report correctly it may even be inverted due to ability to minimize tax if you are well capitalized.

Things need to be adjusted along the whole scale.

However take one area down the other area knows they are going up and its 'Tax and Spend' FUD all over again.
If you want to get elected better to do nothing and parcel out occasional 'Two dollar shop' tax cut every now and then.

Sleepwalking to victory seems to have advantages.
Our version is vague comments on imagined efficiencies that will enable cost cutting in areas like health, so a bag load of free money becomes available to spend on health.
I thought we did this already last time ?
Bring back social credit.

We will spend $X on THIS, KPI is this, you choose your vote

Or, we will make NZ great again by growing incomes and jobs...

Sleepwalking works, hunker down 2 or 3 terms, and waltz home, no need to push NZ forward. Negative? Yes, but reality.

Cost cutting, yes thats a good idea, but in reality it doesnt raise much funds, but its great in a campaign.

Yes Im in a glass half empty evening, but what I do know is nothing will changes, based on the last X decades. No wiggle room

GV27

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#3107767 25-Jul-2023 08:07

So how many ministerial scandals are we away from a snap election?

Generally once the PM gets asked that question it becomes an overwhelming one.

sir1963

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#3107773 25-Jul-2023 08:39

ezbee:

Well every time when the funding solution comes up to enable a Government to make those kinds of bold moves.

Then the old "Tax and Spend" campaigns, start up.

So I would blame the collective electorate that buys dog whistles of this kind.

Thereby making sure any leader or team that would be brave and decisive enough will never gain power.

Denmark, and Nordic states were not built on low marginal taxes.
Progressive tax rates going up to around 50% or more.
We don't have to go that far, but even a move of 2% on top tax inevitable causes wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The "gnashing of teeth" comes from where different groups want to put the next tax bracket.
I have for example opposed the tax reductions because the extra "block of cheese" made zero actual difference to my life.

In Sweden the corporate tax rate is 20%.

GV27

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#3107842 25-Jul-2023 12:12

GV27:

So how many ministerial scandals are we away from a snap election?

Generally once the PM gets asked that question it becomes an overwhelming one.

OK, this was unexpected so quickly, but this is a substantial step-change in the tone of this week:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132611615/david-parker-untenable-to-remain-revenue-minister-after-wealth-tax-rejection

I am keeping an eye out for one key resignation. If that happens, the odds of a snap election go to a near certainty (no, it's not Hipkins). But it seems far more likely in light of this.

sen8or

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#3107853 25-Jul-2023 12:49

If a schnapps election is called, all the public have to vote on is the underperformance of the governing party, in this case a cabinet that is falling apart rather rapidly, it will not end well for them.

Hipkins needs time to mend fences, I doubt that 3 months is long enough, but as the old saying goes, a week is a long time in politics.

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#3107905 25-Jul-2023 15:39

Muldoon in the only PM to ever call a schnapps electron. There have been snap elections.

Technofreak

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#3108048 25-Jul-2023 18:46

Handle9: Muldoon in the only PM to ever call a schnapps electron. There have been snap elections.

I think the schnapps might have been more like whiskey. IIRC it was purportedly over over Ruth Richardson though I think there was a lot more to it.

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Handle9

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#3108086 25-Jul-2023 20:47

Technofreak:

Handle9: Muldoon in the only PM to ever call a schnapps electron. There have been snap elections.

I think the schnapps might have been more like whiskey. IIRC it was purportedly over over Ruth Richardson though I think there was a lot more to it.

Lol. You mean Marilyn Waring. She's got nothing in common with Ruth Richardson other than they were both women National MPs.

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