NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3129120 18-Sep-2023 19:27

Anyone who was running for an office and genuinely changed their views... It does happen yes, however...

They should be very keen to explain the evidence etc that changed their view and encourage others to reconsider.
I was a blind idiot but now I'm not and you should not be too.

They can also explain that they have their personal choice, so voters know what they are getting if they decide they are still in the old camp.

When they 'duck and cover' I do think that they intend to get in by stealth then once secure they can use their position.

Some are kinda doing this with how much their Evangelical links may sway their actions once they are in place.
Be honest and up front.

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freitasm

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#3129121 18-Sep-2023 19:36

Deplorables are not honest.

gzt

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#3129134 18-Sep-2023 21:21

quickymart: After reading The Spinoff's report this morning, I get the feeling this guy didn't write the rebuttal personally either, it seems more like someone in the National Party wrote it for him: https://thespinoff.co.nz/live-updates/18-09-2023/nationals-hamilton-east-candidate-opposed-fluoridation-vaccine-mandates

Looks like another politician in it for the reliable antifloride candidate vote and now the antivax vote if he can get it.

gzt

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#3129135 18-Sep-2023 21:24

Gotta love Luxon's quote in that article presumably speaking for the National Party:

"But the National leader said Ryan Hamilton had “genuinely apologised” and if “everyone had to have a perfect record, we’d have nobody in parliament”.

Rikkitic

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#3129150 18-Sep-2023 22:00

gzt: Gotta love Luxon's quote in that article presumably speaking for the National Party:

"But the National leader said Ryan Hamilton had “genuinely apologised” and if “everyone had to have a perfect record, we’d have nobody in parliament”.

A crap argument of a crap mind. Of course it is not about having a perfect record, but about where you draw the line. Luxon draws it very low indeed.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

sen8or

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#3129233 19-Sep-2023 08:17

Interesting that Hipkins was quick to condemn Hamilton for his views / tweet from 2013 but when questioned on Rhodes, was far more circumspect. Ultimately though, its all just distractions from what should be the priority for the election, policies and ability to enact those policies that resonate with the voters.

Labours GST off fruit and veges is unlikely to deliver the savings to consumers that it promises with pretty much every economist panning the policy.

Labours free dental for under 30s, well intentioned but requires coordination and planning of many moving parts, not something they have a good track record of doing.

Nationals tax cuts are broad based, but their numbers are questionable at best, downright amateur at worst and are likely to end up costing much more than the savings / extra revenues predict.

More staff in frontline positions in health, education and justice seems to be the easy answer from both major parties, but where are we magicing up these extra staff from? Policies that are big on promise but small on details (timeframe and how it will be achieved) are just this elections version of Kiwibuild / Light rail promises 6 years ago.

freitasm

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#3129235 19-Sep-2023 08:23

sen8or:

Interesting that Hipkins was quick to condemn Hamilton for his views / tweet from 2013 but when questioned on Rhodes, was far more circumspect. Ultimately though, its all just distractions from what should be the priority for the election, policies and ability to enact those policies that resonate with the voters.

And that's why it's important to know where candidates' lean. If there's an anti-vaxxer or anti-fluoride in there I want to know. It may not be a party's policy but I don't want these people around power.

As I said before, it's not about digging up old stories. It's about knowing their history.

tdgeek

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#3129241 19-Sep-2023 08:29

sen8or:

Labours GST off fruit and veges is unlikely to deliver the savings to consumers that it promises with pretty much every economist panning the policy.

Labours free dental for under 30s, well intentioned but requires coordination and planning of many moving parts, not something they have a good track record of doing.

Nationals tax cuts are broad based, but their numbers are questionable at best, downright amateur at worst and are likely to end up costing much more than the savings / extra revenues predict.

The tax cuts offer similar solutions as Labours offerings. Lowly targeted and expensive. If you are a family, you win. But what about lower income singles, and average income singles?

I cannot recall any recent election where baubles and lollies dominate as they do this time. The baubles aren't shiny, they forgot the sugar in the lollies and they are both too expensive

tdgeek

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#3129244 19-Sep-2023 08:32

sen8or:

More staff in frontline positions in health, education and justice seems to be the easy answer from both major parties, but where are we magicing up these extra staff from? Policies that are big on promise but small on details (timeframe and how it will be achieved) are just this elections version of Kiwibuild / Light rail promises 6 years ago.

Labour sees that from targeted immigration, but now we have 100k in a year, thats 30 to 40 thousand homes to magic up

National says they will use savings from the 6.5% public employee cuts to help the frontline, but they also said frontlines wont be cut, but they also said they need the 6.5% to pay for the tax cuts

sir1963

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#3129246 19-Sep-2023 08:38

I dont believe any of the parties are throwing money at Mens Health.

Bowel screening would actually save a LOT of lives of both genders, its just not something people ar comfortable with.

tdgeek

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#3129247 19-Sep-2023 08:43

sir1963:

I dont believe any of the parties are throwing money at Mens Health.

Bowel screening would actually save a LOT of lives of both genders, its just not something people ar comfortable with.

As sen8or posted above "those policies that resonate with the voters."

People want money

tdgeek

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#3129249 19-Sep-2023 08:46

https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/nz-news/350074668/false-promises-cost-living-solutions

This is a good article. Explains why we have a cost of living issue, and what can be done about it, and what we won't do about it, and what both parties will do about it, thats wrong

sen8or

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#3129254 19-Sep-2023 08:55

freitasm:

sen8or:

Interesting that Hipkins was quick to condemn Hamilton for his views / tweet from 2013 but when questioned on Rhodes, was far more circumspect. Ultimately though, its all just distractions from what should be the priority for the election, policies and ability to enact those policies that resonate with the voters.

And that's why it's important to know where candidates' lean. If there's an anti-vaxxer or anti-fluoride in there I want to know. It may not be a party's policy but I don't want these people around power.

As I said before, it's not about digging up old stories. It's about knowing their history.

Fair enough. I just see bringing up a tweet from 2013 as being a bit questionable. How far back do we go in peoples history and do we also bring up whatever achievements they may have made to provide balance? Even for the Labour candidate Rhodes and her anti HPV stance, what has she achieved on the other side of the ledger?

Being anti-flouride in 2013 is pretty likely to have been benign, a fringe protest almost, whereas being anti-vax now has a whole new meaning with the crap storm that occurred in the last few years and the firestorm that is being fed through social media. We are using standards of today to judge actions and opinions of a decade ago (10 years ago, would you have thought someone a conspiracy nut for being anti-flouride?)

Always appreciate the wide and diverse views in this thread and often find things that provide good questions :)

sir1963

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#3129256 19-Sep-2023 08:59

tdgeek:

sir1963:

I dont believe any of the parties are throwing money at Mens Health.

Bowel screening would actually save a LOT of lives of both genders, its just not something people ar comfortable with.

As sen8or posted above "those policies that resonate with the voters."

People want money

I dont want the money.

What I do want is quality education for kids. If that means class sizes for the extremes of ability to being 5-10 students , so be it.
we have 10 years of education to achieve the best we can for each child to have them happy and functional in society.

Feed them breakfast, Lunch, Tea if we have to, make the schools a place of peace and opportunity with no one hungry.
Have sports clubs, homework clubs, music clubs, etc after school from 3-5. Heck have hobbies, build balsa wood planes, lino carving for prints, story time
Maori carving, Kapa Haka, Cooking class where you get to eat what you made, anything to keep these kids engaged in the education process, and the broader community.
Let them rotate in these subjects, their choice.

(and keep the god botherers out of it)

The repayment will be keeping more out of the justice system, and as they say "Prevention is cheaper the cure", and we have fewer victims.

GV27

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#3129257 19-Sep-2023 09:00

tdgeek:

As sen8or posted above "those policies that resonate with the voters."

People want money

If we aren't going to get it then we'd be expecting services to not decline. That's really the litmus test for this election. Parties who want to take more and more and who struggle to have anything to show for it vs. those who want to take less and think they can improve things at the same time.

Taking more and more from people already under the pump from other living costs is a hard sell at the best of times, even if you are capable of using it effectively. That doesn't seem to describe anyone in NZ at the moment.

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