NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3108090 25-Jul-2023 20:57

Handle9:

Technofreak:

I think the schnapps might have been more like whiskey. IIRC it was purportedly over over Ruth Richardson though I think there was a lot more to it.

Lol. You mean Marilyn Waring. She's got nothing in common with Ruth Richardson other than they were both women National MPs.

You are dead right. It was indeed Marilyn Waring, and right again nothing in common except both National party MPs.

Yes, she sunk off the scene whereas Ruth rose up the ranks and ended up in the same ministerial role as Rob.

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Handle9

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#3108111 26-Jul-2023 00:33

Technofreak:

Handle9:

Lol. You mean Marilyn Waring. She's got nothing in common with Ruth Richardson other than they were both women National MPs.

You are dead right. It was indeed Marilyn Waring, and right again nothing in common except both National party MPs.

Yes, she sunk off the scene whereas Ruth rose up the ranks and ended up in the same ministerial role as Rob.

Quite the contrary sinking off the scene really. Waring is a distinguished academic, has done a lot of aid work and was awarded a Dame Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit in 2020 for services to women and economics.

ezbee

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#3108358 26-Jul-2023 14:38

Even more Muldoon seemed 'very' happy with the decision to go to a schnapps election.
He thought that he had a clever plan, gifted a pretext to go early that gave him a big advantage.

He did not strictly have too, could have grumbled on until the official date.
Marilyn Waring just crossed the house on Nuclear-free vote, it was not supply and confidence.

This article by Barry Sopher.
Reminds me of recent reports of the alcohol consumption in the Kremlin, always good indicator things are going well.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/barry-soper-inside-the-night-when-rob-muldoon-called-a-snap-election-35-years-ago/LKGABDBYS2XIIBJPSU42GCBRLI/

Muldoon has a pretty good retirement and even did the Rocky Horror Narrator as a wheeze, with the odd pelvic thrust.
https://teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/15942/muldoons-rocky-horror

A funny titbit about Parliament and alcohol... Nothing like looking after priorities :-)
""
In 1854, when the colony of New Zealand was granted self-government, the very first law passed by the very first members of parliament was to open a bar for themselves.
""
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/the-house/audio/2018653357/gin-and-beer-it-parliament-s-boozy-past

We got Roger Douglas, so National supporters might have got a bob each way :-)

So far it looks like a 'Kick to Touch' election the main parties not stepping too far.

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#3108624 27-Jul-2023 02:00

ezbee:

So far it looks like a 'Kick to Touch' election the main parties not stepping too far.

More like dumb and dumber

GV27

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#3108627 27-Jul-2023 06:05

ezbee:

Even more Muldoon seemed 'very' happy with the decision to go to a schnapps election.
He thought that he had a clever plan, gifted a pretext to go early that gave him a big advantage.

He did not strictly have too, could have grumbled on until the official date.
Marilyn Waring just crossed the house on Nuclear-free vote, it was not supply and confidence.

His book 'The New Zealand Economy: A Personal View' gives an interesting account of the constitutional crisis that unfolded with regards to the dollar.

GV27

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#3108762 27-Jul-2023 13:42

TPM tax policy released. It is, for want of a better word, bonkers.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2307/S00151/te-party-maori-propose-radical-tax-reforms.htm

...and otherwise easily dismissed. But there is no path to Goverment for Labour without TPM and the Greens and there is significant confluence in their respective tax policies.

sen8or

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#3108771 27-Jul-2023 14:11

I quickly skim read the document, some of it is well intentioned (as left leaning tax policy tends to be), but it is highly ambitious in its claims -

* Wealth tax to bring in $23bio more tax. between 2% and 8% wealth tax payable annually and will "capture capital gains accrued". So in essence, unrealised capital gains will now be treated as income and 2% payable annually. So a retired couple with a $2mio house will have to pay $ 40k each year in wealth tax, this is despite NZ super (for a couple), only coming to $ 42,501 - so they have $ 2,501 to live on, pay insurance, rates, food, transport etc?

* Land Banking tax. I see they have exempted Maori freehold and customary land. Too much temptation, don't want to be banned again.....

Removing GST from food - this has been argued till the cows come home. The beauty of our tax system is its simple and compliance costs are low. As soon as we start introducing complexity, compliance costs will go up, who is going to absorb the increased costs, the supermarkets? They are afterall well known for their generosity and willingness to keep profits to a minimum.....

tdgeek

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#3108774 27-Jul-2023 14:22

sen8or:

Removing GST from food - this has been argued till the cows come home. The beauty of our tax system is its simple and compliance costs are low. As soon as we start introducing complexity, compliance costs will go up, who is going to absorb the increased costs, the supermarkets? They are afterall well known for their generosity and willingness to keep profits to a minimum.....

Food is an issue. Tomato thats easy, what about canned tomatoes? Last time this popped up there was myriad of marginal foods that may or may not comply. More complex than just a spud and a bean

Rikkitic

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#3108778 27-Jul-2023 14:34

tdgeek:

Food is an issue. Tomato thats easy, what about canned tomatoes? Last time this popped up there was myriad of marginal foods that may or may not comply. More complex than just a spud and a bean

I don't know a lot about this but I do know other countries have done it. What makes it so hard here? Are we just too dumb?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

GV27

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#3108781 27-Jul-2023 14:37

sen8or:

I quickly skim read the document, some of it is well intentioned (as left leaning tax policy tends to be), but it is highly ambitious in its claims -

* Wealth tax to bring in $23bio more tax. between 2% and 8% wealth tax payable annually and will "capture capital gains accrued". So in essence, unrealised capital gains will now be treated as income and 2% payable annually. So a retired couple with a $2mio house will have to pay $ 40k each year in wealth tax, this is despite NZ super (for a couple), only coming to $ 42,501 - so they have $ 2,501 to live on, pay insurance, rates, food, transport etc?

It'd be the amounts over $2m.

And a $2m house is one thing, but if the house is $2m then the value of any other assets e.g. Kiwisaver, pensions etc would then be captured.

There seems to be a very large elephant in the room with this, which is the ultimate value of business interests. 8%, annually, on amounts over $10m would capture some fairly big shareholdings of some fairly major companies. There is a potential for a ripple effect here that goes beyond the Greens not being able to understand the implications of a 0% threshold on family trust 'wealth'.

GV27

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#3108782 27-Jul-2023 14:38

Rikkitic:

tdgeek:

Food is an issue. Tomato thats easy, what about canned tomatoes? Last time this popped up there was myriad of marginal foods that may or may not comply. More complex than just a spud and a bean

I don't know a lot about this but I do know other countries have done it. What makes it so hard here? Are we just too dumb?

We have a broad, extremely logical system that we have been rightly reluctant to compromise with the kind of exemptions other countries have designed into their systems.

tdgeek

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#3108783 27-Jul-2023 14:42

Rikkitic:

I don't know a lot about this but I do know other countries have done it. What makes it so hard here? Are we just too dumb?

Its about the level of processing of food I recall. And a food that has some or a lot of the vege or fruit in it, is that then a fruit or vege?

It isnt about a list of vege and fruits

Is coffee a fruit or vege? If its a nut why arent nuts included? Muesli? Weetbix?

sen8or

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#3108784 27-Jul-2023 14:47

The classic - cooked chicken (which attracts GST in Aus) vs frozen (which doesn't).

We aren't too dumb, if anything we were smart enough not to create unnecessary complexity in a tax system.

There would only be two entities that benefited from the removal of GST on food -

1 - IT companies who would charge an arm and a leg to implement accounting software changes to capture what would undoubtedly be some fairly complex changes.

2 - Supermarkets, who after a few news cycles would simply creep their prices back up to recoup additional costs.

GV27

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#3108789 27-Jul-2023 15:06

There's also the not-too-minor issue that by virtue of spending more of their money on healthy food, the benefit of this kind of thing flows disproportionately to higher income households.

This might seem like a minor thing but it has certainly been good enough logic to oppose pretty much anything National propose, so I'll be keen to see the mental gymnastics that justify it here.

GV27

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#3108790 27-Jul-2023 15:08

sen8or:

The classic - cooked chicken (which attracts GST in Aus) vs frozen (which doesn't).

We aren't too dumb, if anything we were smart enough not to create unnecessary complexity in a tax system.

We apparently can't adjust personal tax rates more than once a decade, how do you think you'll get on with a tax that requires this level of compliance guide-lining to function:

https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?DocID=GII/GSTIIFL1/NAT/ATO/00001

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