NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3136681 29-Sep-2023 18:50

evilengineer:

I imagine many would be tempted at this point in time.

A potentially unseemly three-way knife fight and/or omni-shambles from the three stooges could prove very entertaining and possibly be Labour's ticket to a quick return if they can manage to not meltdown themselves after a defeat.

The problem would be how much damage could they do in the meantime?

And you'd be partially responsible for helping bring it about.

Labour sold out in 2017, never again. National will sell out as well. But the Nats/ACT/NZF will be far more "active" than Labour/Greens/NZF. Its ironic when the former use the term Coalition of Chaos

Now, we all know that Labour will lose. National will win. Perhaps Labour aligned voters will give NZF the party vote?

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geekIT

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#3136692 29-Sep-2023 19:48

The more restraint that can be brought to bear on Luxon, the better. The guy is an evangelistic Christian in a country where the main religion is officially documented as 'No Religion', and who has publicly stated that 'abortion' is murder.

If he becomes Prime Minister it's unlikely that his unfettered decisions will reflect what's best for the majority of New Zealanders.

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#3136700 29-Sep-2023 20:07

geekIT:

The more restraint that can be brought to bear on Luxon, the better. The guy is an evangelistic Christian in a country where the main religion is officially documented as 'No Religion', and who has publicly stated that 'abortion' is murder.

This straw man is the dumbest one ever and BS culture wars garbage.

His religion has near zero impact on his political positions. He's stated that National will not change abortion laws and it's a health issue.

Criticise him for stuff he has done or taken a position on, don't import this US crap.

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#3136702 29-Sep-2023 20:10

Luxon is happy to spend $2B cutting the benefits on the most vulnerable to give the upper and middle class a tax cut. But remind me again good Christian values of do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

I’m personally looking forward to 3 years of chaos with Winny and being able to say “Well you voted for this 💩 show.”

I just sympathise with the poor and those on a disability benefit as their lives will inevitably become even harder.

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#3136733 29-Sep-2023 23:08

Eitsop: Maybe left voters should vote for Winston to be a handbrake for national/act disaster

This is the most stupid idea I've seen in a long time.

I don't agree with all the ideas coming from Nationasl or Act but there's no way they could be a bigger disaster than the government we currently have.

I'd rather they we able to get on with running the country than having to work with the likes of Winston P. He is untrustworthy and not a team player. Probably Ok in opposition keeping the government on their toes but you don't want his help when in government. Just take a look at how much the PGF has cost.

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#3136748 30-Sep-2023 07:50

Handle9:

This straw man is the dumbest one ever and BS culture wars garbage.

His religion has near zero impact on his political positions. He's stated that National will not change abortion laws and it's a health issue.

Criticise him for stuff he has done or taken a position on, don't import this US crap.

Luxon did state in the leaders debate that he will resign if the abortion laws change, so thats extreme.

tdgeek

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#3136749 30-Sep-2023 07:52

Technofreak:

Eitsop: Maybe left voters should vote for Winston to be a handbrake for national/act disaster

This is the most stupid idea I've seen in a long time.

I don't agree with all the ideas coming from Nationasl or Act but there's no way they could be a bigger disaster than the government we currently have.

I'd rather they we able to get on with running the country than having to work with the likes of Winston P. He is untrustworthy and not a team player. Probably Ok in opposition keeping the government on their toes but you don't want his help when in government. Just take a look at how much the PGF has cost.

Just take a look at how much the PGF will cost. Again

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#3136756 30-Sep-2023 08:59

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/sports/sports-memorabilia/rugby-league/listing/4330881975

Liz Gunn runs an auction to raise more money for her Loyal bs party. Raises the princely sum of $32. Questions on the auction are hilarious 😄

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#3136824 30-Sep-2023 11:00

tdgeek:

Handle9:

This straw man is the dumbest one ever and BS culture wars garbage.

His religion has near zero impact on his political positions. He's stated that National will not change abortion laws and it's a health issue.

Criticise him for stuff he has done or taken a position on, don't import this US crap.

Luxon did state in the leaders debate that he will resign if the abortion laws change, so thats extreme.

By which point, if he does resign, the laws already changed. Very easy for him to say that.

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#3136927 30-Sep-2023 11:39

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/short-story-of-a-nz-loyal-party-candidate what's scary is I can imagine most - if not all - of the Loyal supporters think exactly like the Andrew guy in this fictional story.

Must be strange being wrapped up in such a world of weird delusion. What on earth are they going to do when they lose the election (which they will)?

GV27

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#3136985 30-Sep-2023 12:09

BarTender:

I just sympathise with the poor and those on a disability benefit as their lives will inevitably become even harder.

Yea, it's a good thing that this only matters when it comes to scare-mongering about an incoming government, and not the actual performance of the government in managing the various drivers that are decimating living standards for and middle-income earners.

A bit like Robertson panicking about how the National tax plan would 'increase emissions' when he's just slashed hundreds of millions of dollars from the Climate Response budget lines and didn't even let the Climate Change Minister know it was going to happen.

If it mattered, they'd have actually done something about it. Now that there's an election, it suddenly matters again.

ezbee

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#3136990 30-Sep-2023 12:22

For the aggrieved mix Liz Gunn, Brian Tamaki and such... It's not a loss.
Well it will just be more calls for rank and file to donate more to continue the fight.

Those at the top are making bank on this. Billy Te Kahika showed the way.

USD is very strong and with all the hours of pure nutcase video they can get a bit of that too.
Small change for Americans to help create Florida or Texas in New Zealand.

ACT/National Government would not be so much of a loss for them.
They can call it a win, a step along the path, especially ACT growth.
Many things that effect their wealth generation and acquisition align.
Gun stuff really brings in the American donations as well :-)

Liz, Brian Tamaki etc would see it as a victory due to their stirring up uncertainty in electorate.
Then its back to more grifting for donations.

Brian Tamaki may also get some prezzies in devolution of Government services which he can then have his church claim to deliver.
Evangelicals will be hanging out for things like this and weak charities investigations, more Sanitariums
Many small but impactful things perhaps in meda funding.

Abortion Law is a bit 'strawman-iey' itself as its highest hurdle one could pick.
Wealth and power matters more in reality and they might be onto a winner there.

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#3137089 30-Sep-2023 17:37

GV27:

BarTender: I just sympathise with the poor and those on a disability benefit as their lives will inevitably become even harder.

Yea, it's a good thing that this only matters when it comes to scare-mongering about an incoming government, and not the actual performance of the government in managing the various drivers that are decimating living standards for and middle-income earners.

So, how is pointing to facts that the National Fiscal Plan (Page 11) "National will return to indexing main benefits to inflation" and Page 7

How exactly will those on the disability benefits be better off and this is scare mongering rather than pointing out facts?

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Technofreak

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#3137101 30-Sep-2023 18:23

tdgeek:

Bit of a turn up article I thought that was put to bed

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300979367/new-survey-shows-widespread-support-for-taxes-on-capital-gains-and-windfall-profits

Id prefer they made the PAYE tax tables/thresholds non regressive, it can be done.

When you see who commissioned the survey you realise the outcome was very probably predetermined. They're hardly likely to publish a survey that didn't have those results.

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tdgeek

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#3137104 30-Sep-2023 18:37

BarTender:

So, how is pointing to facts that the National Fiscal Plan (Page 11) "National will return to indexing main benefits to inflation" and Page 7

How exactly will those on the disability benefits be better off and this is scare mongering rather than pointing out facts?

I will quote GV "Yea, it's a good thing that this only matters when it comes to scare-mongering about an incoming government, and not the actual performance of the government in managing the various drivers that are decimating living standards for and middle-income earners."

The actual performance of the current Government, voters can decide. Covid and Ukraine were minor (the theme of these treads). That is INCORRECT

Who is voting for the current Government? Nobody. Its about the NEW government. Labour are "apparently" shocking. Cannot run a soup kitchen as per these threads. So, its NOT about the current Government its about the NEW government, which as we all know is National and ACT or National, ACT and Winston Peters. I have voted for everyone, Nats, Labour, Greens and no one. Admittedly when I voted Labour Labour in 2017 as National are useless, I was actually going to vote NZF/NZF as National will lose as they are useless, NZF to keep a tab on Labour

So lets say Labour are shocking. Facts and IMF may somewhat disagree. Hipkins/Robertson vs Luxon/Willis?? No contest. John Key/Bill English vs Luxon/Willis,?? no contest. My lifestyle wont be impacted by whoever wins, but others will be.

Gangs. National will make patches illegal in public. I have no issue with that. When confronted with a scenario, they back tracked, as usual. Later, yes we will do that in the first 100 days, but the Police will decide. Again, big words no action. Backload it to the Police even though Luxon made a commitment. Thats what pisses me off. Talk to get votes, but an escape clause. 2026 Tax thresholds, "if the economy allows it"

Go back to scare mongering. Assess the capabability of Chris and Nicole. Thats not scaremongering. Its accountability. Labour had accountability, they will lose. Are Chris/Nicole average, or good or great? Accountability. Thats why voters will vote for National, or NZF

Take ownership, its not about Labour, they have already lost, so comment on National the winner, or National and Peters

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