NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3109883 30-Jul-2023 20:09

gzt:
quickymart:

How did the "unholy alliance" between Brian Tamaki and "lawyer" Sue Grey come to pass? This article explains why they think they have a good chance in the election this year (lol).

https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/politics/350044790/unholy-alliance-how-destinys-brian-tamaki-found-common-ground-sue-grey?utm_source=stuff_website&utm_medium=stuff_referral&utm_campaign=stuff_skybox&utm_id=stuff_skybox&fbclid=IwAR3pqsGrQloo5fidSVt1UXG47S2GUMgonT3-3DhbIwXKrbIiWVOpyQuq3SA

Paywall. A short quote from the article illustrating your main point and the value of the article is always a good thing for more than one reason.

Apologies, I didn't realise it was paywalled (I was reading it at work) - here's a portion of the article and it's an interesting read:

Despite his 2004 claim his church would “rule NZ” by 2008, the Destiny New Zealand Party tanked in the 2005 election, scoring just 14,000 votes. Its most successful electorate candidate got only 1100.

In 2019, Tamaki launched Coalition NZ, saying the new party would be led by his wife Hannah Tamaki and that the pair had been weighing up a move into politics for a number of months.

Later renamed Vision NZ, that party also tanked, earning just 4236 votes in the 2020 election.

Still, Tamaki reckons he’s got a good shot at Parliament in this coming election. Not that he’s had any other shot at Parliament, of course.

“If the public want safety and want someone to do the job ... Then we’ll make a difference.”

That “we” Tamaki’s referring to is a combination of his Freedoms NZ party and the Outdoors Party, previously called the Outdoors and Freedom Party, which is led by Sue Grey. Last election it got 3000 votes.

This seemingly unlikely union of fringe beliefs and religious ideology was Tamaki’s idea, and he says the pair get on like a house on fire.

“We disagree about a lot of things - abortion probably – and we talked about that. We need to join together on what we agree with not what we disagree with and put our differences aside. We both love our country, and we’re doing this for our country.”

Really? He's doing this for...the country?? I thought it was all about his grifti...sorry..."the donations"! 😄

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Eitsop

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#3109899 30-Jul-2023 21:34

ockel:You've come up with a policy that is uncosted but is a wonderful political soundbite? You should run for Labour leadership (Kiwibuild, Auckland Light Rail, child poverty.... etc etc etc).

The IRD has stats, which are out of date thanks to inflation, which will be a good starting point for you. https://www.ird.govt.nz/about-us/tax-statistics/revenue-refunds/wage-salary-distributions

That 2.5% of the population that earn over 180k but pay 12% of the income tax base - you want them to do even more heavy lifting. That 8% of the population that earn $120k but pay 25% of that income tax base - you want them to pay for your uncosted UBI that has a huge fiscal hole. I guess you want them to pay even more.

I'm guessing that not one of that 8% of the population will act in their self interest to reduce their tax burden. They're all far too altruistic. But if they do? Your fiscal hole looks like a yawning chasm.

Tax needs a whole rework, not a tweak
I can't say I have all answers, but a UBI is something I like from TOP policies..

I like the idea of removing below and replacing with a UBI
- unemployment benefit
- sickness benefit
- pension
- working for families
Essentially removing the cost of rebuilding Winz computer systems

also, put on a flat tax rate for everyone, say 40%

ockel

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#3109961 31-Jul-2023 09:06

Eitsop:

Tax needs a whole rework, not a tweak
I can't say I have all answers, but a UBI is something I like from TOP policies..

I like the idea of removing below and replacing with a UBI
- unemployment benefit
- sickness benefit
- pension
- working for families
Essentially removing the cost of rebuilding Winz computer systems

also, put on a flat tax rate for everyone, say 40%

Now I'm really confused. You want to remove, for example, the pension (currently $1100/fortnight pretax or $550pw pretax) are replace it with a UBI of $30pw. I'm no political scientist but that suggests you're not going to get any votes from the over 65 group, nor from anyone working that might collect a pension in their lifetime.

Actually I think you're better to come out and say that you support The Opportunities Party, warts and all. The land tax policies suit your political ethos as do the progressive tax regime, the UBI etc etc. What is interesting is that they think the tax brackets that you've suggested previously will net a whopping $550m which is almost chump change.

I was dwelling on your proposal to align our tax rates with Australia. Will you also allow tax packaging like Australia does, with its deductabilities for "work related expenses", you know - deductions for the Armani suits that are monogrammed such that they can be claimed as a WRE expense, or the Chanel handbag that can fit a laptop in so it becomes a WRE? For anyone who has worked under the Australian regime its a tax rort for the well heeled higher bracket individuals.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

GV27

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#3109965 31-Jul-2023 09:22

ockel:

I was dwelling on your proposal to align our tax rates with Australia. Will you also allow tax packaging like Australia does, with its deductabilities for "work related expenses", you know - deductions for the Armani suits that are monogrammed such that they can be claimed as a WRE expense, or the Chanel handbag that can fit a laptop in so it becomes a WRE? For anyone who has worked under the Australian regime its a tax rort for the well heeled higher bracket individuals.

I like the Australian ideas of adjusting tax brackets more than once a decade, and more seriously, the pre-tax contributions to Super schemes which are then taxed upon exit.

Kiwisaver, insanely, is taxed YOY.

If Super is going to become means-tested or restricted in some way for anyone working now then there needs to be a circuit-breaker on the tax treatment of Kiwisaver, or it simply needs to be excluded from any means-testing. It's absurd that it's been going on this way for so long.

Technofreak

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#3109973 31-Jul-2023 10:03

UBI infers the existence of a mythical money tree. Newsflash, there isn't one. The money for a UBI has to come from somewhere, someone has to earn it before it can be distributed in the form of a UBI.

As far as I'm concerned a UBI is wrong in so many ways.

It gives rise to the concept that "income" can be derived for no effort.

Because it is universal, everyone gets it including those working. So basically the money is being transferred from one pocket to another with the government taking a handling fee. No thanks, I'd rather keep that portion of my taxes and have the full amount.

A UBI is the start of a move to communism, where we all work for the common good and get given by the government what we need to survive.There is no incentive to do better. The end result is a smothering of our competitive instincts and we end up in a world of mediocrity and lack of progress.

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SJB

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#3110005 31-Jul-2023 11:42

Technofreak:

A UBI is the start of a move to communism, where we all work for the common good and get given by the government what we need to survive.There is no incentive to do better. The end result is a smothering of our competitive instincts and we end up in a world of mediocrity and lack of progress.

Apart from the tiny ruling elite who live the high life on the backs of the other 99.99%.

GV27

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#3110026 31-Jul-2023 12:25

National's transport plan doesn't suck. I am 'shook'.

Sure, it's not visionary. But if we're going to talk crappy plans, I'll take one that at least pretends West Auckland needs a busway as opposed to one that just gaslights West Aucklanders every time they ask what happened to the light rail we were promised in 2017.

sen8or

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#3110040 31-Jul-2023 13:02

Labour has released its list for the election

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/watch-live-labour-to-reveal-party-list-ahead-of-general-election/S4L45UXQFNDDFOI3JBFEEPTVP4/

No real surprises, Wood and Twyford both slipping down to what potentially will be vulnerable placings, although both are in safe labour seats so unlikely to be exiting the beehive one way or the other come election time.

ockel

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#3110054 31-Jul-2023 13:26

sen8or:

Labour has released its list for the election

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/watch-live-labour-to-reveal-party-list-ahead-of-general-election/S4L45UXQFNDDFOI3JBFEEPTVP4/

No real surprises, Wood and Twyford both slipping down to what potentially will be vulnerable placings, although both are in safe labour seats so unlikely to be exiting the beehive one way or the other come election time.

Coffey is a surprise. The only Labour MP that lost in the red wave of 2020, and going to retire for "family reasons", is now going to contest an empty seat due to Allans departure. That is nothing short of self-interested opportunism. I hope that the electorate see it the same way and vote accordingly.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

GV27

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#3110106 31-Jul-2023 13:47

sen8or:

No real surprises, Wood and Twyford both slipping down to what potentially will be vulnerable placings, although both are in safe labour seats so unlikely to be exiting the beehive one way or the other come election time.

I'm not sure how safe Twyford is. Having Labour MPs in West Auckland has worked out awfully for the West and North West, with key transport projects just abandoned and no longer talked about. He's also been on personal leave for some time as his wife is quite ill, from memory.

I'm not sure the National candidate is any better than Ngaro was, tbh.

tdgeek

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#3110576 1-Aug-2023 17:06

Irregardless of anyone persausion

National MP Tim van de Molen has been referred to the Privileges Committee, a high powered group of senior MPs that acts as tribunal for parliamentarians.

Speaker Adrian Rurawhe announced that the MP for Waikato had been referred to the Privileges Committee, after receiving a complaint from Labour’s Rachel Boyack.

Boyack alleged van de Molen acted in a "threatening or intimidating" manner towards another MP during a select committee meeting.

tdgeek

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#3110577 1-Aug-2023 17:09

GV27:

I'm not sure how safe Twyford is. Having Labour MPs in West Auckland has worked out awfully for the West and North West, with key transport projects just abandoned and no longer talked about. He's also been on personal leave for some time as his wife is quite ill, from memory.

I'm not sure the National candidate is any better than Ngaro was, tbh.

While it is trendy to bag the current Government, there is an election soon, how about putting forward the positives for National?