NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3148170 16-Oct-2023 15:12

sir1963:

Another interesting outcome of EVs is their weight and most parking buildings will need significant strengthening or reduced capacity .

Kerb weight Tesla Model 3 performance: 1897 kg.

Kerb weight Ford Ranger Raptor: 2442 kg.

It isn't the EVs causing the problem.

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#3148173 16-Oct-2023 15:19

sir1963: Everyone I know with an EV (from Nissan Leaf to Tesla and above) are all on salaries of $150k plus.

Yep I know many people on higher salaries who have bought EV's too. Doesn't mean they can really afford them still. Many of those people I know still have mortgages (especially now with higher interest rates), kids and many other things in life that take priority.

But with the rebate this means they can install charging, and at-least get a bit of a kickback. It is an incentive to get them to move towards an EV vs going with yet another ICE, and it works.

Another interesting outcome of EVs is their weight and most parking buildings will need significant strengthening or reduced capacity.

Lets keep the conspiracy crap out of this discussion OK? That statement is not at all true. In-fact if you wish to discuss EV's there are multiple threads on here for it. Many EV's are actually on-par with their ICE counterparts.

But lets also keep this discussion on topic. This is not an EV discussion, this is politics...

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sir1963

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#3148181 16-Oct-2023 15:37

SaltyNZ:

sir1963:

Another interesting outcome of EVs is their weight and most parking buildings will need significant strengthening or reduced capacity .

Kerb weight Tesla Model 3 performance: 1897 kg.

Kerb weight Ford Ranger Raptor: 2442 kg.

It isn't the EVs causing the problem.

Suzuki Vitara 1185Kg,

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#3148183 16-Oct-2023 15:41

sir1963:

Suzuki Vitara 1185Kg,

A lot more massive utes on the road than Suzuki Vitaras.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

GV27

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#3148186 16-Oct-2023 15:44

Rikkitic:

However, this is a democracy and we have a new government coming, legitimately elected. On that basis I don't see any purpose in trying to score points off the shortcomings of the old one. That is done and dusted. That government is gone. Don't keep telling me what they did wrong. Tell me what the new one can do right.

They could probably do almost anything better. The bar is very low in that regard though, and there hasn't exactly been a contest of ideas in terms of policies to get us here. As in, it's possible for them do to better, but in reality, will they? And will it be in any meaningful way that matters? I have deep reservations.

In truth, I think they'll get very little done. I strongly suspect they'll leave anything too out there until the next term and will try for some sort of appeasement when it comes to a lot of the spending stuff. I can see them being slower with the minimum wage increases and benefit hikes, but I suspect they'll still actually make them.

Some things like Light Rail, the insane Harbour tunnels etc will be easy pickings once they actually get their incoming briefings - they get to say "we've cut these back because they're insane and funding doesn't allow for it" and look pragmatic doing it. Bringing in health targets and reporting is an easy win, even if it changes little and they make little progress towards improving them - they can at least say they bought them back. Same with 3 Strikes.

I don't think we'll see PGF 2. Probably for the best. And I don't think ACT is going to get their way with the referendum. If we do have one, I expect it to change precisely nothing, no matter what way it goes.

tdgeek

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#3148190 16-Oct-2023 15:53

GV27:

They could probably do almost anything better. The bar is very low in that regard though, and there hasn't exactly been a contest of ideas in terms of policies to get us here. As in, it's possible for them do to better, but in reality, will they? And will it be in any meaningful way that matters? I have deep reservations.

In truth, I think they'll get very little done. I strongly suspect they'll leave anything too out there until the next term and will try for some sort of appeasement when it comes to a lot of the spending stuff. I can see them being slower with the minimum wage increases and benefit hikes, but I suspect they'll still actually make them.

Some things like Light Rail, the insane Harbour tunnels etc will be easy pickings once they actually get their incoming briefings - they get to say "we've cut these back because they're insane and funding doesn't allow for it" and look pragmatic doing it. Bringing in health targets and reporting is an easy win, even if it changes little and they make little progress towards improving them - they can at least say they bought them back. Same with 3 Strikes.

I don't think we'll see PGF 2. Probably for the best. And I don't think ACT is going to get their way with the referendum. If we do have one, I expect it to change precisely nothing, no matter what way it goes.

I feel they will "seem" to be doing a lot, but not actually carry out a lot. My concern is the flagship Tax Policy not delivering, and what else has to be cut

ezbee

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#3148191 16-Oct-2023 15:55

We have been there before with health waiting lists.
Management just make sure you are not on a list for a consultant, so you are not waiting.
No one is waiting we don't need so many consultants, just more managers as gatekeepers.
So thats easy but hardly useful.

Hamiltion went full Giga-Idiot with the App that was going to solve all their healthcare delivery issues.
It was just a scam abetted by their healthcare CEO, that countless dollars were wasted on.

Healthcare is easy till it isn't.

tdgeek

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#3148193 16-Oct-2023 16:02

ezbee:

We have been there before with health waiting lists.
Management just make sure you are not on a list for a consultant, so you are not waiting.
No one is waiting we don't need so many consultants, just more managers as gatekeepers.
So thats easy but hardly useful.

Hamiltion went full Giga-Idiot with the App that was going to solve all their healthcare delivery issues.
It was just a scam abetted by their healthcare CEO, that countless dollars were wasted on.

Healthcare is easy till it isn't.

The issue is, like Paddy Gower, we have issues :-) But a new Government doesnt arrive with fresh ideas, it has little option on finding a different way to recycle the same funds. The key word is the same funds, that every Government has to play with. Some of the public will gain some will lose, as always

sir1963

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#3148201 16-Oct-2023 16:42

ezbee:

We have been there before with health waiting lists.
Management just make sure you are not on a list for a consultant, so you are not waiting.
No one is waiting we don't need so many consultants, just more managers as gatekeepers.
So thats easy but hardly useful.

Hamiltion went full Giga-Idiot with the App that was going to solve all their healthcare delivery issues.
It was just a scam abetted by their healthcare CEO, that countless dollars were wasted on.

Healthcare is easy till it isn't.

My wife need knee replacements done.They will not put her on a waiting list if they can not be done within 4 months.

Meanwhile she is consuming health resources for GP visits for pain killers (which have impacted her life), she has significant detrimental impacts on her quality of life and her work.

So we are now looking at taking out another mortgage to get them done.

MASSIVE amounts of healthcare $$ gets wasted on the merry-go-round of being referred back to your GP who has to rinse and repeat everything they have done and resubmit.

Bring back the system where by about 10% of the budget was spent on Admin (under the old hospital boards).

sir1963

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#3148202 16-Oct-2023 16:47

GV27:

They could probably do almost anything better. The bar is very low in that regard though, and there hasn't exactly been a contest of ideas in terms of policies to get us here. As in, it's possible for them do to better, but in reality, will they? And will it be in any meaningful way that matters? I have deep reservations.

In truth, I think they'll get very little done. I strongly suspect they'll leave anything too out there until the next term and will try for some sort of appeasement when it comes to a lot of the spending stuff. I can see them being slower with the minimum wage increases and benefit hikes, but I suspect they'll still actually make them.

Some things like Light Rail, the insane Harbour tunnels etc will be easy pickings once they actually get their incoming briefings - they get to say "we've cut these back because they're insane and funding doesn't allow for it" and look pragmatic doing it. Bringing in health targets and reporting is an easy win, even if it changes little and they make little progress towards improving them - they can at least say they bought them back. Same with 3 Strikes.

I don't think we'll see PGF 2. Probably for the best. And I don't think ACT is going to get their way with the referendum. If we do have one, I expect it to change precisely nothing, no matter what way it goes.

We need light rail. I have used the underground systems in multiple countries as affordable, reliable, efficient systems.

can private industry do it cheaper, sure, but only so long as they do not have to service the break even / loss making routes and leave them to councils/government.

GV27

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#3148212 16-Oct-2023 17:50

sir1963:

We need light rail. I have used the underground systems in multiple countries as affordable, reliable, efficient systems.

can private industry do it cheaper, sure, but only so long as they do not have to service the break even / loss making routes and leave them to councils/government.

It's not so much whether we need it or not, it's whether we use it to drive the mega-projects Wellington minstries seem to want to build instead - which is massively expensive tunnels under the Harbour.

There's no need for it to be underground and it adds considerable cost, it also means it will be deferred until the funding and designs for the harbour tunnels (totally unrelated and unnesscary) can be found and that's decades away.

Meanwhile, Auckland takes on more and more people and has less and less control over how the city looks and copes with it.

gzt

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#3148213 16-Oct-2023 17:52

sir1963: Bring back the system where by about 10% of the budget was spent on Admin (under the old hospital boards).

It's obvious you're implying admin costs in our current system are far higher. Personally I have no knowledge of this. Many things have changed since the long ago health boards. Probably including how administration cost is classified. Can you explain this issue further?

sir1963

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#3148242 16-Oct-2023 18:33

gzt:
sir1963: Bring back the system where by about 10% of the budget was spent on Admin (under the old hospital boards).

It's obvious you're implying admin costs in our current system are far higher. Personally I have no knowledge of this. Many things have changed since the long ago health boards. Probably including how administration cost is classified. Can you explain this issue further?

I have an uncle who is an accountant.

He served on the old health system as a local elected person for effectively free.

Afterwards he became a member of a board of directors and was paid in excess of 25K a year (more than I was earning )

tdgeek

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#3148247 16-Oct-2023 18:54

sir1963:

We need light rail. I have used the underground systems in multiple countries as affordable, reliable, efficient systems.

can private industry do it cheaper, sure, but only so long as they do not have to service the break even / loss making routes and leave them to councils/government.

Labour wanted light rail. Didnt happen. IIRC National doesnt want it either. A big cost for a small impact. If LR was in our 4 main centres and 4 others, and there was some form of penalty for not using it (tolls, pargoodking, lack of parking etc) Im all for it. But it will cost If I was told it will cost me $6 a week in extra tax to pay for it, even though I would rarely use it, I'm all in. Greater good. But it needs to service NZ. Normal, ideally electric rail between centres and small centres and tourist detentions, Im all in, greater good, even though not a personal good. Although if I can tiki tour around NZ relying on EV trains and EV buses, thats the future

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#3148248 16-Oct-2023 18:57

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/10/16/old-zealand-beats-new-zealand-election-2023-winners-losers-predictions/ A lengthy election post-mortem from Bomber about why it went so wrong for Labour this time.

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