NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3111555 3-Aug-2023 17:56

quickymart:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300941951/act-categorically-rules-out-working-with-winston-peters-and-nz-first

David Seymour categorically rules out working with Winston. If National/Act don't get over the line this might make negotiations difficult.

Its all games. Jockeying for position. Peters wont work for Labour, ACT wont work for Peters, ACT may well have a resounding result, he has shown grit fir digging in against National. IMO its all quite negative. Bagging Labour, bagging National, im not expecting the two major parties to out forward their goals, so the voters can choose, it will be like US elections, dirty laundry time. Both our two major parties have plenty of dirty laundry, but who has it now matters. I hear that there is a National MP in the news, bit its quiet... If it was a government MP? Thats politics.

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#3111611 3-Aug-2023 20:45

Its how OUR democracy works. Why anyone would have voted for MMP is beyond me. This is meant to be more democratic. The cost of MMP must be enormous as well. But it is the system we have. Winston is just expert at playing it. Hard to believe he was a Minister in the Muldoon government all those decades ago.

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#3111874 4-Aug-2023 19:15

Bluntj:

Its how OUR democracy works. Why anyone would have voted for MMP is beyond me. This is meant to be more democratic. The cost of MMP must be enormous as well. But it is the system we have. Winston is just expert at playing it. Hard to believe he was a Minister in the Muldoon government all those decades ago.

That may be true, but New Zealand has no checks and balances beyond MMP basically forcing coalition governments since the Upper House was abolished. MMP for all its faults is more democratic than a single party getting a majority under FPP and then slamming through any legislation they want unhindered by that pesky "will of the people".

Bluntj

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#3111883 4-Aug-2023 20:02

Kyanar:

Bluntj:

Its how OUR democracy works. Why anyone would have voted for MMP is beyond me. This is meant to be more democratic. The cost of MMP must be enormous as well. But it is the system we have. Winston is just expert at playing it. Hard to believe he was a Minister in the Muldoon government all those decades ago.

That may be true, but New Zealand has no checks and balances beyond MMP basically forcing coalition governments since the Upper House was abolished. MMP for all its faults is more democratic than a single party getting a majority under FPP and then slamming through any legislation they want unhindered by that pesky "will of the people".

It was democratic within each geographical area ie electorate.

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#3111995 5-Aug-2023 02:51

Bluntj:
Winston is just expert at playing it. Hard to believe he was a Minister in the Muldoon government all those decades ago.

It’s hard to believe because he wasn’t a minister in the Muldoon government.

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#3114172 10-Aug-2023 15:58

Getting to be a tight race -

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-new-poll-shows-labour-crashing-nzf-rising-and-national-act-with-enough-support-to-govern/HNJHVHFYWRBY3HO735BBDFTHFA/

National / Act could potentially govern alone, but the real interesting piece was Winston up to 5.8% party support for NZ First, bringing them back into parliament (and again possibly in a king maker position). This was done by the taxpayers union, so I would expect some wiggle room on the exact numbers, but its a similar result / conclusion to several other recent polls.

The labour party may not have started campaigning yet, but their going to have to pull a pretty big rabbit out of the hat to reverse the slide.

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#3114175 10-Aug-2023 16:18

I was hoping Winston would just disappear, but I guess you can never count him out. Sigh.

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#3114297 10-Aug-2023 18:20

How can voters be so forgetful and or gullible to even consider voting for Winston Peters. Especially after the 2017 election where he sold his supporters out just to suit himself. Thankfully they showed their displeasure next time around but so it seems some have short memories.

He is untrustworthy, and in my opinion, corrupt, based on what he has done in the past. He is absolutely that last person we need sitting on the government benches.

If you don't believe me just do some research on the Scampi fishery enquiry and Winston's flip flops with that. Was it just a coincidence he had the use of a helicopter associated with a major fisheries player to travel to events during the next election campaign?

Remember the Winebox enquiry and all of his posturing over that and the teasing about the information he was going to reveal? All for nothing.

Then there's the Christchurch businessman that Winston used parliamentary privilege to spread lies about.

The recent court case over political donations shows how devious he is.

If I put my mind to it I'm sure I could think of other events, involving Winston, which have a cloud over them.

Each event on their own might well be written off as a blip, but when you have so many all associated with one person a picture starts to form.

We don't need him, we are much worse off through his actions and be don't need his "help" ever again.

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#3114303 10-Aug-2023 18:45

Technofreak:

How can voters be so forgetful and or gullible to even consider voting for Winston Peters.

No one wants to vote Labour as Covid, Ukraine its results are on them, the global trend. No one wants to vote National as C Luxon is useless. Ban phones from school???

Its not a normal election. So many variables. Chippy is popular and normal, Chris L isnt but they now have the same PM % poll. Makes little sense

We may find that voters go elsewhere, Greens get more votes as does ACT

In any event, nothing will change. Landslide or no landslide, nothing will change. Of note, the issues we have are infrastructure, education, health, housing

But what do we see lately? Banning phones from schools, Hauraki Gulf. Its pretty shallow from both sides.

Infrastructure, well National wants to revive 50 Roads , Labour wants a twin tunnel, so I guess thats infrastructure, but in reality its a vote spree

Nothing will change.

Winston? he is probably in prime position, no need to vote for me, its about not vote for them. IIRC he's taking votes from the Maori party, so I hope that continues as it wont matter as its a Labour vote going to Peters

Am I right that if Peters gets 7% of the vote but no electorate win he is still out?

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#3114315 10-Aug-2023 19:39

I think if he makes it to 5% of votes he makes it into Parliament, either as part of the government or opposition:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/live-updates/10-08-2023/another-poll-shows-nz-first-would-be-back-in-parliament

The big mover in this latest poll is New Zealand First, up 2.5 points to 5.8% – a result that would push the party back into parliament with seven seats. This is the third poll in two weeks to show a return for the Winston Peters-led minor party.

The 5% thing is good though, as it means clowns like Brian Tamaki and Liz Gunn haven't got a hope in hell of getting anywhere near the place - which is how it should be.

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#3114316 10-Aug-2023 19:39

Chris H might be normal and appeal as a person but Labour have been shown to be totally inept. The next month or two might show exactly how much money they and their Finance Minister have borrowed and wasted.

Christopher L might not have the appeal of Chris H. I sure don't like him that much, but I think he and most of those around him are competent, certainly more competent than the government we have now.

I seem to have to keep saying to most people I discuss politics with that I fail to see why there's so much focus on the leaders. Yep they're important but it's also the team around them that is just as important.

Just because you don't like team A or team B or team C, it doesn't you have to vote for team X.

A leopard dosen't change it's spots. Given the chance Winston will do it to us all again. We don’t need that.

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#3114326 10-Aug-2023 20:01

Technofreak: but I think he and most of those around him are competent, certainly more competent than the government we have now.

My opinion is National is also incompetent. Paul Goldsmith formally PR Manager for Labour then he became National Finance spokesman. Nicola Willis the new Finance Spokesman. Or Spokesperson. Not great. Luxon talks before he thinks as PM is a tick box.

Its hard to measure if Labour had Hipkins in earlier and if there was no Covid and Ukraine noise (yes I now many here discount Covid and Ukraine)

National can do no wrong as they have no power. Had they had power, the what? What I come back to is March 26 2020. Lockdown. Judith said she would have gone harder and sooner. 14 days later "its too long, its too much" Thats my issue. Where do we draw a line between wanting to do the best or bitching??

This election I couldnt care less. It wont affect me. But I do care about those that struggle to care about themselves. Im not quite sure a twin tunnel, banning phones or helping Hauraki Gulf marine life will help them much, irregardless of any benefits of those. These threads have been about housing, infrastructure, education and health. Latterly inflation. But this campaign seems to have generally sidelined those issues

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#3114328 10-Aug-2023 20:07

Technofreak:

A leopard dosen't change it's spots. Given the chance Winston will do it to us all again. We don’t need that.

Agree.

If Labour got enough to win with Winston, they will decline it. National Im not so sure as they want the power, Luxon wants the tick box, they may cave. Or they may say, NO, lets do a true minority Government. (Assuming thats possible?) I.e, NAT/ACT or LAB/GRE cannot govern with a majority. So they govern with a minority where whoever wins, may need the Opposition to help. That would be a very very conservative period, but far better than Winston stretching his legs

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#3114367 10-Aug-2023 21:18

tdgeek:

My opinion is National is also incompetent. Paul Goldsmith formally PR Manager for Labour then he became National Finance spokesman. Nicola Willis the new Finance Spokesman. Or Spokesperson. Not great. Luxon talks before he thinks as PM is a tick box.

Its hard to measure if Labour had Hipkins in earlier and if there was no Covid and Ukraine noise (yes I now many here discount Covid and Ukraine)

It's pretty hard for anyone to be more incompetent than the government we have now. I'm not sure what your issue is with Nicola Willis. So far from what I've seen she hasn't proved incompetence.

As I said I don't rate Luxon highly but then again I don't rate Hipkins highly either but for different reasons.

I'm not sure Labour would have been any better if Hipkins had been in the hot seat any earlier. As I said before it's not just the leaders, he's surrounded by incompetence.

Cast your mind back to early 2020 before Covid was a thing. There was a lot of disenchantment with the incompetence of Labour government and plenty of talk about a change of government at the election later that year. Remember the Kiwibuild fiasco among others. Rather than have a negative effect, Covid saved the Labour government by creating a distraction plus the age old fact that governments very rarely get thrown out when a country is faced with adversity like a pandemic or a war.

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#3114369 10-Aug-2023 21:27

tdgeek:

Technofreak:

A leopard dosen't change it's spots. Given the chance Winston will do it to us all again. We don’t need that.

Agree.

If Labour got enough to win with Winston, they will decline it. National Im not so sure as they want the power, Luxon wants the tick box, they may cave. Or they may say, NO, lets do a true minority Government. (Assuming thats possible?) I.e, NAT/ACT or LAB/GRE cannot govern with a majority. So they govern with a minority where whoever wins, may need the Opposition to help. That would be a very very conservative period, but far better than Winston stretching his legs

Labour might decline it, pity they didn't do that last time. Who's to say they won't do it again. So far I think it's only Winston saying he won't work with the Green's and vice versa. Labour sure paid out big time with the PGF to get Winston's support.

National may well do a deal with Winston. I think the possibility is probably less than 50/50. I hope they don't. I'd rather see Winson frozen out by both parties.

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