NZ 2023 Election Thread

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1778 posts

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#3114414 11-Aug-2023 07:56

But he won't be frozen out by either party (potentially). Even if they don't do a deal to get into power and try and govern as a minority Govt, if he is back in parliament, his vote may be needed to pass legislation, watch the lollie scramble then.

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Eitsop

581 posts

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#3114669 11-Aug-2023 13:55

Hi like the idea of reporting gender pay gaps, https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132725016/labour-promises-to-introduce-mandatory-gender-pay-gap-reporting

But, I do agree it is more red tape..

A better was, is to simply require businesses to report hours paid when they submit IRD Pay reports.. businesses likely already capture hours worked, and most likely already used computerised systems that can easily output the data

Then data can be reported by either IRD or Stats NZ
https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=184&topicid=305754

sen8or

1778 posts

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#3114672 11-Aug-2023 14:14

Just found another reason not to vote Labour, more virtue signalling without any thought as to the outcome, cost of compliance or usefulness of their policy. The "gender pay gap" is such a click bait worthy title, no doubt it will make headlines, but there are simply too many variables for any business to meaningfully measure it.

Some businesses already have to report wages and hours by gender to stats NZ (ours included), its a complete waste of time and distorts the data because the collection method is fundamentally flawed. In our organisation, staff doing the same job get the same rate, staff doing different jobs get different rates, regardless of external or internal reproductive organs. The data provided to stats NZ (and reported by them) only reports on gender, nothing else (qualifications, job classifications, experience etc), its complete hogwash

- although, could have fun with it, reporting 1 staff member for each of the 100+ "genders"......

GV27

5882 posts

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#3114673 11-Aug-2023 14:14

Eitsop:

A better was, is to simply require businesses to report hours paid when they submit IRD Pay reports.. businesses likely already capture hours worked, and most likely already used computerised systems that can easily output the data

Then data can be reported by either IRD or Stats NZ
https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=184&topicid=305754

Sort of, but it falls apart as a useful metric for salaried workers.

mudguard

2094 posts

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#3114681 11-Aug-2023 14:58

GV27:

Eitsop:

A better was, is to simply require businesses to report hours paid when they submit IRD Pay reports.. businesses likely already capture hours worked, and most likely already used computerised systems that can easily output the data

Then data can be reported by either IRD or Stats NZ
https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=184&topicid=305754

Sort of, but it falls apart as a useful metric for salaried workers.

There must be an easier way to compare. I will admit I'm not super clear what happens in my own work as, a, we aren't allowed to discuss salaries, b, our team is very small and c, I report overseas, so can't really compare easily.

I keep wondering to myself, if we take the stereotypical example. Male and Female professional, same job, same point on the ladder, female takes a decade out to raise children, comes back, what is the realistic balance?

Personally I don't think we'll get any kind of parity until men and women take equal time out for children, IE 50% of men stay at home to raise children.

But then, I may be naive in thinking that things like lower Kiwisaver balances from women are purely from taking time out to raise children, where the answer might be more complex.

sen8or

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#3114689 11-Aug-2023 15:13

The causes and answers are extremely complex, but the simple "gender pay gap" wins airtime.

Eitsop

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#3114691 11-Aug-2023 15:17

GV27:

Eitsop:

A better was, is to simply require businesses to report hours paid when they submit IRD Pay reports.. businesses likely already capture hours worked, and most likely already used computerised systems that can easily output the data

Then data can be reported by either IRD or Stats NZ
https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=184&topicid=305754

Sort of, but it falls apart as a useful metric for salaried workers.

Salaried workers are still paid based on set hours eg normally 40, even if they work 80, the comparison still valid between salaried worker between sex, ethnicity

Ge0rge

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#3114922 12-Aug-2023 10:25

sen8or:
Just found another reason not to vote Labour, more virtue signalling without any thought as to the outcome, cost of compliance or usefulness of their policy. The "gender pay gap" is such a click bait worthy title, no doubt it will make headlines, but there are simply too many variables for any business to meaningfully measure it.

Some businesses already have to report wages and hours by gender to stats NZ (ours included), its a complete waste of time and distorts the data because the collection method is fundamentally flawed. In our organisation, staff doing the same job get the same rate, staff doing different jobs get different rates, regardless of external or internal reproductive organs. The data provided to stats NZ (and reported by them) only reports on gender, nothing else (qualifications, job classifications, experience etc), its complete hogwash

- although, could have fun with it, reporting 1 staff member for each of the 100+ "genders"......

We're in the same boat. We have tables, that are publicly available, showing how much each person will earn based on their role and qualifications. There is no "gender" column, and you don't get to negotiate your pay - you get what the tables say.

I agree that there is a "gender earning potential" gap. If I was employed at the same time as a female, for the same job, we would progress through the tables at the same rate, no pay gap at all. The issue comes if she chooses to take time off for parental leave, and I do a course that allows me to progress while she is on leave. I will get paid more than her, until she comes back and does that same course and then our pay will be the same again. So no gap, but her total earning potential has decreased in comparison to mine.

Of course, if I was the one who took the time off, it would swing the earning potential in her favour, but I am under no illusions about how often this happens.

I don't know what the solution for this, but it sure is depressing seeing your organisation getting beaten up in the media for having "one of the highest gender pay gaps", despite there being no gender factor in your pay tables. It doesn't help that we only have around 17% female employees, when the calculation for pay gap is so incredibly crude.

Perhaps if a party could develop policy to show any gap more accurately, they might go a long way to being able to rectify it?

quickymart

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#3115196 12-Aug-2023 22:58

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/election-2023-matthew-hooton-will-christopher-luxon-rule-out-dealing-with-winston-peters/AU6UQKANIJH3VJT62FE7MXWIPM/ (paywalled)

An interesting opinion piece from Matthew Hooton on what the election result could look like, as well as "the Winston factor".

I found this bit quite telling:

...Peters can go places that Seymour wouldn’t, including legitimising those caught up in conspiracy theories about vaccines, the World Economic Forum’s alleged “great reset” and the UN’s so-called “Agenda 21″.

Personally, Peters doesn’t believe any of this nonsense. He has been a perfectly orthodox Treasurer, Foreign Minister and Deputy and Acting Prime Minister for Jim Bolger, Shipley, Helen Clark and Ardern.

But his campaign rhetoric has never carried much epistemic weight. Anti-globalisation and conspiracism became his bread and butter after he rallied against nefarious plots by the Business Roundtable, allegedly led by Selwyn Cushing, who, in fact, didn’t fund the Business Roundtable, belong to it or even share its policy outlook.

jonherries

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#3115221 13-Aug-2023 09:27

Interesting, looks like fruit and veges fresh and frozen will be GST exempt if Labour gets in.

Wonder about frozen though - specifically: wedges/chips vs corn that has been removed from husks and cut up/removed from cobs.

I think most of those chips have been precooked but might open up a new market.

Was also thinking of berries and higher priced fruit/veges - question does it include tinned eg. Peaches. Some of these are traditionally canned and might also end up in the frozens.

Last question is legumes - peas for sure, but chickpeas and lentils are interesting questions which then leads me to peanuts?

Jon

quickymart

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#3115225 13-Aug-2023 10:09

This one isn't paywalled: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300945108/chemtrails-911-and-vaccine-nanobots-the-digital-trail-of-nz-firsts-couldbe-mps

Winston may not believe in what the loonies say, but he sure seems to be attracting a fair few of them. Maybe they saw him speaking at the Parliament occupation as him giving some sort of validation to their, uh, "cause" or something?

GV27

5882 posts

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#3115263 13-Aug-2023 13:33

Labour's tax policy includes... no changes to income tax thresholds!

If they were to see out another term on this policy, that would be... 16 years without indexation or an adjustment to the tax brackets, other than adding the $180K one. But that's a pretty good example of the effect of non-indexing:

General (CPI) that cost $180,000.00 in 2021 Q2 would cost...

$204,787.43

in 2023 Q2

That's just two years worth of non-indexing.

It also effectively locks in the minimum wage crossing the 30% threshold. I can't put into word how absolutely insane and degenerate that is. The Government won't let businesses exploit you, but they'll sure as hell do it themselves.

jonherries

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#3115269 13-Aug-2023 13:44

Yeah but net net as an economy indexing is effectively a tax cut if it runs at inflation so alternatively something at the lower end could be done (eg. Tax free threshold).

Or you end up with a CGT as do nothing more/new doesn’t win votes.

Jon

GV27

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#3115270 13-Aug-2023 13:49

jonherries: Yeah but net net as an economy indexing is effectively a tax cut if it runs at inflation so alternatively something at the lower end could be done (eg. Tax free threshold).

Or you end up with a CGT as do nothing more/new doesn’t win votes.

Jon

There would be far less pressure for a tax free threshold if they stopped helping themselves to more and more of people's real wages by refusing to index for the inflation they legally require to exist in the economy more than once in a decade and a half.

There is no good moral reason to have a tax bracket that hits a minimum wage earner at a 30% rate. None.

Technofreak

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#3115271 13-Aug-2023 13:57

Removing GST from these food items has been pretty well debunked as a smart idea.

The costs of implementation for businesses to manage what is and isn't exempt, the on going costs of oversight to ensure the system is being applied correctly the actual amount of GST that will be saved and the doubts any amount of value will be passed on to the consumer all go to make it a stupid idea.

Any savings will get soaked up in costs. The people who most need some help wont be any better off.

Why are they persisting with this silly idea? Do they think the public are dumb enough to think it will make a material difference at the checkout? Are they so desperate to clutch at anything they think will help them win?

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