NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3160815 18-Nov-2023 12:47

gzt:

That is very unlikely for multiple reasons isn't it.

As I've said before, the Green Party working with NAct to promote climate action is like the Anglican Church working with Richard Dawkins to promote religion. It's not just that they don't believe in it, it's that they mock it at pretty much every opportunity.

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#3160827 18-Nov-2023 13:16

SaltyNZ:
gzt: That is very unlikely for multiple reasons isn't it.
As I've said before, the Green Party working with NAct to promote climate action is like the Anglican Church working with Richard Dawkins to promote religion. It's not just that they don't believe in it, it's that they mock it at pretty much every opportunity.

That is far from accurate. National Party official position is to meet NZs international obligations. ACT Party position is NZ should follow major trading partners as they meet their obligations or don't meet their obligations as the case may be. It is generally accepted there are elements in both parties that don't accept anthropogenic climate change. The official policy of both parties accepts climate change and seeks to mitigate it with emission reduction.

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#3160874 18-Nov-2023 17:32

SaltyNZ:

gzt:

That is very unlikely for multiple reasons isn't it.

As I've said before, the Green Party working with NAct to promote climate action is like the Anglican Church working with Richard Dawkins to promote religion. It's not just that they don't believe in it, it's that they mock it at pretty much every opportunity.

As soon as they signed an agreement with National Shaw and Davidson would be finding new jobs.

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#3160875 18-Nov-2023 17:33

MikeB4: Sometime in the new year it will all need to be done again. At least it keeps the news media busy.

It's unlikely. People were saying the same thing in 2017 and that worked out OK.

It's not in anyones best interests to blow up coalitions so they generally don't.

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#3160890 18-Nov-2023 18:03

Bluntj:

Not sure why everyone is so tough on Luxon when he has a hellish tough task to form an agreement with both Peters and Act. An almost impossible task on its own let alone trying to get a lasting agreement. They all "want" but neither will be prepared to "give". It hasnt actually been that long considering how important it was to wait for special votes before starting. Labour gave Peters so much when they formed a coalition with him as they wanted power at any cost, and I am sure the Nats will be quite tougher.

I 100% agree. The average time is 30 odd days. Doesnt matter if its 29 odd days or 40 odd days. The issue is ineptitude, inexperience and spouting campaign slogans from day one. It just doesnt stop. Now, when a coalition agreement is signed between NZ First and National or NZ First, ACT and National, can we expect comms to be normalised? Im slightly over its going great, we will have a strong and stable government, I have done many negotiations.

Once thats sorted we will be sorted. The inflation crisis we have is caused by the "other lot" and we have been promised that will be sorted. Great news. That will reduce interest rates, which will help mortgage payers and the economy. Crime will reduce as thats caused by the "other lot" Education and health will improve as the issues are caused by "the other lot"

Now, Im not being facetious, these ARE the promises. Oh and the tax cuts......

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#3160938 18-Nov-2023 18:07

Rikkitic:

Part of the judgement of Luxon also has to do with the way he deals with the press. The complete lack of willingness to discuss anything and the fobbing off of all questions with the same repeated slogans and stupid fixed smile says something about his character and abilities. He is unlikely to be any more transparent in the future. By contrast, Seymour handles this kind of thing much better. The difference in style between them is telling.

That is exactly it.Some NAT supported bleat about the negotiation process, it as NOTHING to do with that. Although the media say otherwise.

What I HATE is dishonesty. Tell me that we are screwed, Im ok with that. I and everyone else can suck it up. Tell me BS 7 times day, sorry, no.

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#3160941 18-Nov-2023 18:14

SaltyNZ:

As I've said before, the Green Party working with NAct to promote climate action is like the Anglican Church working with Richard Dawkins to promote religion. It's not just that they don't believe in it, it's that they mock it at pretty much every opportunity.

Like EXXON getting life membership to the Green Party. Anything can be spinned, but most people honour their integrity. As I posted a while back, and you agreed, Seymour is being honest. Like it or lump it, he has been honest. Peters and Luxon are just playing power games in public. If I was Luxon I would say, thanks for voting for me and us. As we are now in a three way negotiation, I cannot guarantee you will get what I campaigned on. But I will try my darndest. You cannot ask more than that.

Human nature loves honesty.

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#3160944 18-Nov-2023 18:22

tdgeek:

Human nature loves honesty.

I wish I could agree with you, but then I look at someone like Trump (as well as the rest his supporters) who seem(s) to make a living out of dis-honesty 😢

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#3160949 18-Nov-2023 18:35

Handle9:

MikeB4: Sometime in the new year it will all need to be done again. At least it keeps the news media busy.

It's unlikely. People were saying the same thing in 2017 and that worked out OK.

It's not in anyones best interests to blow up coalitions so they generally don't.

I agree with that. Perhaps the issue is this

In 2017, Labour coalesced with Peters. Made sense. While history tells you that Peters has gone into both major parties, and he has been outed. 2017, Deputy PM, Minister of Foreign Affairs , great. Turned to custard as did past issues with National. The coalition agreement 2023 will happen. Although IMHO its more delicate, as instead of "lets sort this" we have a 3 way alpha male issue. The amazing but weak Chris Luxon. The savvy+ Peters, the smart ( I will sit aside while these two blow up) Dave Seymour. How much ego is this and how much is it lets do right by NZ?

I feel where Mike is coming from is that negotiations will fail, so allowing for the holiday period, another election will ensue. If this involved Key, Adern, English, it will work. But it doesnt. It also involves a resurgent Seymour, quite happy to bag National and wanting REAL change, not just a government change.

End of the day it doesnt really matter as the key sectors wont improve as that costs. So as usual it comes down to whats in it for me (voters and MP's)

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#3160953 18-Nov-2023 18:41

quickymart:

I wish I could agree with you, but then I look at someone like Trump (as well as the rest his supporters) who seem(s) to make a living out of dis-honesty 😢

Krekt!! I should have posted "most". My take is if I said all the people in my street are awesome, I ignore the one idiot. Its about normal people

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#3160983 18-Nov-2023 20:33

gzt:
That is far from accurate. National Party official position is to meet NZs international obligations. ACT Party position is NZ should follow major trading partners as they meet their obligations or don't meet their obligations as the case may be. It is generally accepted there are elements in both parties that don't accept anthropogenic climate change. The official policy of both parties accepts climate change and seeks to mitigate it with emission reduction.

was watching the 6pm news, is it me or does Luxon look like he's aged 10 years!

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#3160988 18-Nov-2023 21:14

https://archive.ph/Psmf5 >> Janet Wilson makes a few good points, as well as pointing out a whole group of rules that Winston seems to be (mostly) following.

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#3161007 19-Nov-2023 01:19

tdgeek:

2017, Deputy PM, Minister of Foreign Affairs , great. Turned to custard as did past issues with National.

Did it? The coalition lasted the full term as the 2005 coalition did as well. Sure there was some disagreement on a few issues but by and large they were stable governments.

1996 was the first coalition government and everyone has moved on in understanding how these things work.

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#3161113 19-Nov-2023 12:47

Progress being made towards a conclusion?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/winston-peters-wants-progress-with-christopher-luxon-as-coalition-talks-drag-on-for-another-day/FT3GY2OFAVGVHFALFYS2NDBYTQ/

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#3161282 19-Nov-2023 21:10

quickymart:

Progress being made towards a conclusion?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/winston-peters-wants-progress-with-christopher-luxon-as-coalition-talks-drag-on-for-another-day/FT3GY2OFAVGVHFALFYS2NDBYTQ/

down to 3 last issues it seems

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