NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3161353 20-Nov-2023 07:29

Batman:

down to 3 last issues it seems

No one seems to know, not even Luxon

There's up to three "difficult" and "complex" issues left for the incoming governing parties to get through - and they weren't sorted today.

Both Christopher Luxon and Winston Peters left The Cordis on Sunday looking slightly less chipper than they arrived for their meeting.

Luxon anticipated being in Auckland for at least the next few days. Luxon previously said he said he would "imagine we'd want to to go to Wellington to do a full media event there and a full announcement there" once a deal had been formed.

"We've got a couple of issues, I'd call it one, two, or three maybe issues, one or two," Luxon said.

I will fix your post

down to one last issue, or two, or three. Maybe.

The issue isnt how long this deal is taking (its about average actually) its this daily drivel.

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tdgeek

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#3161355 20-Nov-2023 07:31

Seymour "He said it was the first time three parties would be in a coalition with one another. Previously it had only been two. "

quickymart

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#3161372 20-Nov-2023 08:51

tdgeek:

The issue isnt how long this deal is taking (its about average actually) its this daily drivel.

That, and the canned responses Luxon keeps giving. I personally think Winston is playing hardball on something and that's what's dragging things out. I could be wrong though.

Again credit to Seymour for actually giving something other than a canned response.

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#3161387 20-Nov-2023 09:32

quickymart:

That, and the canned responses Luxon keeps giving. I personally think Winston is playing hardball on something and that's what's dragging things out. I could be wrong though.

Again credit to Seymour for actually giving something other than a canned response.

I think Seymour is too. His donors have an agenda and he needs to deliver it. Right now is his best opportunity.

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GV27

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#3161434 20-Nov-2023 10:43

tdgeek:

The issue isnt how long this deal is taking (its about average actually) its this daily drivel.

It's amplified by journos who currently have nothing to work with and need an angle to generate engagement to stay relevant - literally the defining factor at how successful they are at their job.

Froth at the length of time it takes to form a government when there is still plenty of sitting days left in the calendar is all they have at the moment. Hence the stupid analysis and attempting to read tea leaves without knowing whether anyone is actually drinking it.

I agree with other posters: very little will change, things will most likely just continue to slide as they have or possibly level off, but there are a lot of people who were happy to sit around while Winston played silly games in 2017 because he ultimately chose their favourite team who suddenly think rapid and quick government formation is essential and not doing so is a constitutional outrage.

It will most likely happen this week, there will most probably be some dead rats for National and Winston always come at a price. None of this is new information to anyone.

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#3161447 20-Nov-2023 11:11

Things are not helped by Luxon's 'canned' responses (as someone else so aptly described them) as he breezes past waiting journalists. They have a job to do and it is hard enough when there is nothing to work with. Peters treats them with contempt except when he wants something and I think that is inexcusable. Luxon just wishes the earth would swallow them up. Seymour at least treats them with politeness and even pauses to chat for a moment, whether he says anything or not. He displays a much more relaxed attitude and the banter at least gives the press something to put on TV in the evening. Appearances matter and he is light years ahead of the boardroom bozo in that regard. I just wish his politics weren't so appalling. I would vote for him in a heartbeat.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3161449 20-Nov-2023 11:15

I prefer they do it well and form an "stable" coalition, sorry my bad I wont say that again. I hope they get it right as the Waka needs stabilising. I do wish these things are done with transparency and preferably before the election so the voters know the scenarios and are clear as to what and who we are voting for.

There should be a legislated deadline for the completion of talks and time frame of a new government to be formed. If that deadline is not met then it should be referred to the Head of State to decide what happens.

Bluntj

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#3161504 20-Nov-2023 11:31

So much guess work going on in this thread. People are determining the end results by reading tea leaves it seems.

I too think its now taking too long and should be referred back to the Governor General at the end of this week if no result is forthcoming. Not that I really want to go through another election.

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#3161515 20-Nov-2023 12:14

I think if we did have another election I would probably vote a bit differently. Anything to keep Winston out.

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#3161522 20-Nov-2023 12:29

quickymart: Anything to keep Winston out.

But the thing is we can only assume this is Winston causing things to slow down... Luxon is clearly competent enough to be running NZ from what we've seen also eh?

This Twitter post is however amusing: https://twitter.com/David_Cormack/status/1725635351333786023?t=wb4xw-rifai36zO2e0e06g&s=19

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SaltyNZ

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#3161524 20-Nov-2023 12:36

michaelmurfy:

But the thing is we can only assume this is Winston causing things to slow down... Luxon is clearly competent enough to be running NZ from what we've seen also eh?

This Twitter post is however amusing: https://twitter.com/David_Cormack/status/1725635351333786023?t=wb4xw-rifai36zO2e0e06g&s=19

Ouch.

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tdgeek

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#3161723 20-Nov-2023 18:26

Clearly competent? Double Ouch

Who is seeing a 3 way coalition?

tdgeek

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#3161728 20-Nov-2023 18:38

quickymart:

That, and the canned responses Luxon keeps giving. I personally think Winston is playing hardball on something and that's what's dragging things out. I could be wrong though.

Again credit to Seymour for actually giving something other than a canned response.

IMO, I see Luxon as weak, very weak. He is no doubt very competent, but right now he is way out of his depth.

Peters, he is the kingmaker, he has control, while he wont get everything he wants, he will get a lot of it.

Seymour, the years of being an unimportant bit player are over. He wants "real" change not just a Government change. He is also a kingmaker. While I do not like his politics, not all are alt-right. He , like Peters is smart and savvy. ACT has a history of being a stable and reliable National partner. Supply and Confidence, and a couple of carrots. NZF is not either. And ACT has achieved more votes and seats than NZF, So, ACT needs to be a coalition partner.

IMO we will have a National-ACT-NZ First coalition. National is the key player, but bear in mind they achieved 38% of the election result. So effectively a large but minority party amongst three. When the deals are done, it will be a "strong and stable government, the negotiations were awesome and positive." Scripted but lets see how the next 3 years play out

tdgeek

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#3161730 20-Nov-2023 18:41

GV27:

It's amplified by journos who currently have nothing to work with and need an angle to generate engagement to stay relevant - literally the defining factor at how successful they are at their job.

Froth at the length of time it takes to form a government when there is still plenty of sitting days left in the calendar is all they have at the moment. Hence the stupid analysis and attempting to read tea leaves without knowing whether anyone is actually drinking it.

I agree with other posters: very little will change, things will most likely just continue to slide as they have or possibly level off, but there are a lot of people who were happy to sit around while Winston played silly games in 2017 because he ultimately chose their favourite team who suddenly think rapid and quick government formation is essential and not doing so is a constitutional outrage.

It will most likely happen this week, there will most probably be some dead rats for National and Winston always come at a price. None of this is new information to anyone.

I agree with all that. To me, the time is no issue. The threesome is complex so if it takes longer than the 36 day average (IIRC) its no issue. If it took another 14 days, no issue as the three of them have a lot of differences.

Media wise, its ALL about how long its taking. Thats very shallow as they well know, but it gets soundbites and media wise thats all that matters.

tdgeek

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#3161732 20-Nov-2023 18:49

Rikkitic:

Things are not helped by Luxon's 'canned' responses (as someone else so aptly described them) as he breezes past waiting journalists. They have a job to do and it is hard enough when there is nothing to work with. Peters treats them with contempt except when he wants something and I think that is inexcusable. Luxon just wishes the earth would swallow them up. Seymour at least treats them with politeness and even pauses to chat for a moment, whether he says anything or not. He displays a much more relaxed attitude and the banter at least gives the press something to put on TV in the evening. Appearances matter and he is light years ahead of the boardroom bozo in that regard. I just wish his politics weren't so appalling. I would vote for him in a heartbeat.

1000%. Ive watched a few videos of him. He "appears" to be just a regular guy. Pity some of his politics are alt-right, a lot aren't. But he is on a roll. Prior to the election ACT was humming it. But they had the side issues that held them back.

This might seem a silly thing to say, but if Seymour and Shaw had to discuss and negotiate over an issue, they would. Poles apart, but they are "normal" Many other political names are just a point scoring side show

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