NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3161734 20-Nov-2023 18:51

Bluntj:

So much guess work going on in this thread. People are determining the end results by reading tea leaves it seems.

I too think its now taking too long and should be referred back to the Governor General at the end of this week if no result is forthcoming. Not that I really want to go through another election.

Without searching this thread I thing the average is 36 days. NAT/ACT/NZF is not a smoke solution so it doesn't either me if its tomorrow orin 2 weeks time

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#3161735 20-Nov-2023 18:56

quickymart:

I think if we did have another election I would probably vote a bit differently. Anything to keep Winston out.

To be fair NZF got a result. This is a democracy, you cannot just wipe it away. Same for alt-right ACT, they got a result. Like it or lump it, NZ have spoken, and thats National at 38% of the result, and combined with ACT and NZF that is a voted in Government. End of story. Do i think thats awesome? NO. But it doesnt matter, NZ voted for it, democracy.

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#3161737 20-Nov-2023 19:10

I agree, it's democracy. I may not like the result but I respect it as the people have spoken - and I had my say and voted, so I participated in the process as well.

https://archive.ph/NkAJJ >> Audrey Young in the Herald looks at what's coming up and problem points.

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#3161738 20-Nov-2023 19:18

quickymart:

I agree, it's democracy. I may not like the result but I respect it as the people have spoken - and I had my say and voted, so I participated in the process as well.

https://archive.ph/NkAJJ >> Audrey Young in the Herald looks at what's coming up and problem points.

The way "I" see it, is NZ has many issues. Housing crisis, health crisis, education crisis, ram raid and crime crisis, infrastructure crisis, climate change crisis. And no doubt many others. These are decades in the making. They wont be solved by ACT/NZF/National. Nor anyone else, its that simple.

However, Chris Luxon has said he will solve inflation, crime, health and education (and possibly some other sectors, excluding climate change) as thats what he said, as the other lot caused it. So thats good.

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#3161741 20-Nov-2023 19:29

quickymart:

I agree, it's democracy. I may not like the result but I respect it as the people have spoken - and I had my say and voted, so I participated in the process as well.

https://archive.ph/NkAJJ >> Audrey Young in the Herald looks at what's coming up and problem points.

I will read the rest later, but I look at this quote "Seymour and Peters are behaving civilly and professionally now but it is not their natural state."

The issue here is that these two are both very very savvy. Seymour has a solid foundation going by his pre election polls (affected after that by staff issues) Peters has no foundation or basis, but hey, he got the votes. Both of these two know that Luxon is weak, National is weak, MP wise (excluding Reti) so they are like Hyena's circling for the kill. Or in real life, they want many sound benefits that support ACT and NZF voters. If it plays out as a three way coalition (my feel), that may explain why the well known differences are taking time. Because while the compromises they all need to make may not be that hard to nail in, its a power game where the two minor parties want power, and the largest minor party may not want to cave in. Just my feel EGO 101

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#3161745 20-Nov-2023 19:47

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/11/jenna-lynch-election-2023-analysis-act-new-zealand-first-blindsided-by-christopher-luxon-s-milestone-announcement.html

Six weeks after the country voted, incoming Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced a major development in coalition talks: he's got the policy deals across the line with his two coalition partners.

"We have achieved a significant milestone overnight. We have closed out and agreed our policy programmes with ACT and also New Zealand First," Luxon said.

Peters: He was clearly surprised by Luxon's declaration, unwilling to confirm it until he'd met the man himself.

Seymour: "There's been attempts to negotiate a three-way coalition and they may well come to fruition," he said. As I suspected.

Jenna Lynch: Christopher Luxon's milestone was indeed a milestone worth celebrating even if New Zealand First and ACT were blindsided by him making that public statement.

So the deals are done. Just now ticking off what Ministries are taken by the three parties.

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#3161751 20-Nov-2023 20:23

Machiavelli might advise to cruise along with NZF for 1 and a bit or 2 years.
When global economy turns for better and brings you gifts, ( What went down must go up ).

You goad NZF into breaking the agreement based on something stupid.
Its Winston if he is still in charge so not so hard to anger him to get a rash action.

You have a good economy, NZF is to blame and you can say you gave it the best go you could.
Electorate would then not punish you, as you tried and NZF looks unreasonable.

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#3162023 21-Nov-2023 12:39

On Newshub today https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/11/election-2023-act-leader-david-seymour-makes-public-pitch-to-be-deputy-prime-minister.html

"ACT leader David Seymour has made a public pitch for the deputy Prime Minister role, saying ACT is the second-largest party of the three negotiating a coalition.

He has also suggested he believes ACT should have more ministers than New Zealand First, saying proportionality is important."

I feel that's fair

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#3162171 21-Nov-2023 17:34

Sounds like everything is going well.

https://tkr.ro/e/ENqRQ4UXeIjvJZP8

"National leader Christopher Luxon and NZ First leader Winston Peters have left the Cordis Hotel in Auckland without briefing media on their talks.

Luxon said negotiations were still ongoing, and that all three parties were going "as fast as we possibly can", before getting into his car."

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#3162175 21-Nov-2023 18:06

tdgeek:

On Newshub today https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/11/election-2023-act-leader-david-seymour-makes-public-pitch-to-be-deputy-prime-minister.html

"ACT leader David Seymour has made a public pitch for the deputy Prime Minister role, saying ACT is the second-largest party of the three negotiating a coalition.

He has also suggested he believes ACT should have more ministers than New Zealand First, saying proportionality is important."

I feel that's fair

That does mean more positions that National don't get.
These positions also come with staff and $$$ budgets.
Some fancy overseas conferences you go to etc.

So every position National give away is less $$$, staff, influence to National members.

Never mind NZF and ACT getting out rulers to measure their respective ...

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#3162179 21-Nov-2023 18:27

tdgeek: "ACT leader David Seymour has made a public pitch for the deputy Prime Minister role, saying ACT is the second-largest party of the three negotiating a coalition.

It seems Luxon was surprised by this. Personally I thought Seymour was the model of decorum, until this punt. It doesn't make Seymour look good.

Likewise Luxon announcing a major agreement milestone almost for the second time and um er well except the ministerial positions is a bit like saying the race is over except for the last lap. It could have been worse. It hasn't been too bad.

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#3162239 21-Nov-2023 20:06

michaelmurfy:

Sounds like everything is going well.

https://tkr.ro/e/ENqRQ4UXeIjvJZP8

"National leader Christopher Luxon and NZ First leader Winston Peters have left the Cordis Hotel in Auckland without briefing media on their talks.

Luxon said negotiations were still ongoing, and that all three parties were going "as fast as we possibly can", before getting into his car."

I think they are. Do I support them? No. But this three way partnership is complex, but overall I feel its going fine. If it was NAT/ACT 10 minutes over a beer (ok a slight exaggeration there. If it was LAB/GRE then 10 minutes over a beer. Tomorrow, this week or next week, thats fine by me

Im happy that my feeling many posts back that ACT will take centre stage and not be yet another unimportant political bystander is coming to fruition.

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#3162242 21-Nov-2023 20:14

gzt:
tdgeek: "ACT leader David Seymour has made a public pitch for the deputy Prime Minister role, saying ACT is the second-largest party of the three negotiating a coalition.

It seems Luxon was surprised by this. Personally I thought Seymour was the model of decorum, until this punt. It doesn't make Seymour look good.

Likewise Luxon announcing a major agreement milestone almost for the second time and um er well except the ministerial positions is a bit like saying the race is over except for the last lap. It could have been worse. It hasn't been too bad.

What I bolded. Yes I get that. But as Ive posted a few times this is ACT's time. Seymour has often bagged/criticised National over the campaign. Doesnt matter as you need me, that still applies, as ACT is the other Kingmaker. if this is ACT's time, he wont want to be third fiddle to a flip flop Winston Peters, that would really turn ACT into a make up the numbers party.

Luxon was surprised as he has no clue. Seymour has been the model of decorum of the three, but that doesnt make him look bad. He is pushing what he wants to achieve, with the power that he has, same as the other two, but with more decorum/savvyness.

Am I an ACT fan, hell no, but this is s democracy.

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#3162244 21-Nov-2023 20:24

ezbee:

That does mean more positions that National don't get.
These positions also come with staff and $$$ budgets.
Some fancy overseas conferences you go to etc.

So every position National give away is less $$$, staff, influence to National members.

Never mind NZF and ACT getting out rulers to measure their respective ...

This isnt a National Government. Its a three way partnership. The P word is key

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#3162245 21-Nov-2023 20:25

Yes, agree. Prior to the election It's been obvious that was coming. This could well be the most fractious phase.

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