Israel and Middle East 2023

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#3288877 2-Oct-2024 07:32

Israel has commenced ground operations in southern Lebanon.

At the same time Iran announced a limited strike in response to Nasrallah's earlier death and fired a number of missiles at Israel. Missiles are being intercepted by U.S and Israel. CNN is reporting impacts in Tel Aviv.

Israel's entry to southern Lebanon will inevitably bring back memories of the 2006 Israel–Hezbollah War, and dark memories of Israel's involvement in the Lebanese civil wars giving rise to Hezbollah.

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#3289873 2-Oct-2024 08:53

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350435804/live-iran-launches-missile-attack-israel

Looks like things are escalating...who would have ever guessed that this would happen, when the Israelis are basically bombing, invading and fighting every one of their neighbours?

Edit for clarity: I also do not condone the tit-for-tat retaliations or the various nefarious goings-on by any of the players in these conflicts.

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#3290015 2-Oct-2024 13:17

Handsomedan:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350435804/live-iran-launches-missile-attack-israel

Looks like things are escalating...who would have ever guessed that this would happen, when the Israelis are basically bombing, invading and fighting every one of their neighbours?

Edit for clarity: I also do not condone the tit-for-tat retaliations or the various nefarious goings-on by any of the players in these conflicts.

they can't do all of that i don't think. small country vs big brothers. last night is only a small attack. no way they can survive a big attack, their land mass is too small. Otoh, iran's leaders are also within the mossad's reach I would think, if that's what it comes to. Also i wonder if this is going to affect the outcome of US politics/elections even.

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#3290617 3-Oct-2024 18:20

Meanwhile it’s normal people who have their lives ruined by this mess.

One of my wife’s colleagues hasn’t been able to get hold of her parents in Lebanon since Monday. One of the kids in her class has grandparents who live on the same street that was bombed. The amount of suffering caused by this is immense.

alexx

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#3293191 5-Oct-2024 15:56

Handsomedan:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350435804/live-iran-launches-missile-attack-israel

Looks like things are escalating...who would have ever guessed that this would happen, when the Israelis are basically bombing, invading and fighting every one of their neighbours?

Edit for clarity: I also do not condone the tit-for-tat retaliations or the various nefarious goings-on by any of the players in these conflicts.

There appears to be no number of bombed schools, bombed hospitals, missile strikes on ambulances, on doctors, journalists, women and children, aid workers, or even US citizens, will prevent the United States from funding the next escalation, so there is no reason for Israel to stop.

Just a couple of days ago, US State Department Spokesperson Matthew Miller, refused to say that Iran’s oil and nuclear facilities are NOT legitimate targets for Israel:

https://x.com/AssalRad/status/1841545578116964820

I believe Joe Biden might have said something different about the nuclear facilities, but he also said he would stop sending bombs and artillery shells to Israel if they launched a major invasion of Rafah, and they just ignored him and the US weapons kept coming.

#include <standard.disclaimer>

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#3299152 20-Oct-2024 10:31

alexx:

Just a couple of days ago, US State Department Spokesperson Matthew Miller, refused to say that Iran’s oil and nuclear facilities are NOT legitimate targets for Israel:

https://x.com/AssalRad/status/1841545578116964820

I believe Joe Biden might have said something different about the nuclear facilities, but he also said he would stop sending bombs and artillery shells to Israel if they launched a major invasion of Rafah, and they just ignored him and the US weapons kept coming.

to be honest, Iran and North Korea not having nuclear weapons is the best thing for the planet

ezbee

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#3299164 20-Oct-2024 11:45

With what Iran's Revolutionary Guard, and Religious Police do to their own people.
To even their own young girls to force them into line.
Beatings, Torture, even Dying over how you wear a scarf.
Sympathy is for a people who would be well rid of them.

Nukes.
This is all bad for populations of Iran and North Korea, as nuclear weapons and ICBMs are expensive.
Its resource not going to support productive infrastructure.
That nuclear power plant focusing on breeding plutonium and other isotopes needed for your bomb mass production is not generating so much power either. Its all more radioactive waste and pollution that being kinda secret military processing activities has less oversight. You may also export food and resources you actually need at home to pay etc.

Its not just Iran and North Korea.
Nuclear proliferation will 'explode' given lesson of Ukraine that without nuclear deterrent you are just waiting for a bully to take your stuff

South Korea and Japan will see need to build up nuclear capability with ICBMs to launch them.
Saudi having the Kaaba that Iran's Ayatollah would like to control will also see need to build up a sizeable force.
Etc.

Many of these places may actually have ability to put together some quick and inefficient devices in emergency.
However faced with a real threat that needs a sizeable deterrent, then more capable sizeable force may be seen as essential.
You might want to build even more once you have infrastructure in case you want to do some monstering of your own.

China's CCP is already set on a path of large expansion.

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#3299173 20-Oct-2024 13:17

There seems to be a mole in the CIA which posted on the internet Israel's retaliation plan apparently

ezbee

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#3299196 20-Oct-2024 17:19

If you have secret plans probably best not to give USA any heads up.
Why friendly countries conduct counter spy operations on USA to see whats leaking if they are smart.

Apparently Russia had all the details of Ukraines last summer offensive.
Plus acessment of weaknesses I expect.
Supprise Kursk operation was a supprise as it was supprise to USA.
Cos USA was not fully in the loop.

Trump as a Presidential candidate also gets security briefings again.
Bathrooms at MaraLargo must be fulling up again.
Probably increased sales of club memberships.
Someone has to read them as Trump does not.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-get-intelligence-briefings-classified-documents-criminal-trial-rcna142385

gzt

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#3299464 21-Oct-2024 13:30

Batman: to be honest, Iran and North Korea not having nuclear weapons is the best thing for the planet

No mention of the hostages or the people of Gaza in your plans.

gzt

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#3299466 21-Oct-2024 13:39

ezbee: With what Iran's Revolutionary Guard, and Religious Police do to their own people.
To even their own young girls to force them into line.
Beatings, Torture, even Dying over how you wear a scarf.
Sympathy is for a people who would be well rid of them.

Similar things were said before the invasion(s) of Iraq.

As an afterthought by governments who wanted to invade anyway for their own reasons. It did not work out well.

In fact it became much worse in many areas demonstrating conclusively for any who doubt it that those things cannot be decided by forces outside the country.

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#3300170 23-Oct-2024 00:20

My kids have a number of Lebanese friends. We were talking to one of the parents today. It sounds like the Lebanese economy has almost collapsed with mass unemployment a likely outcome.

The Lebanese economy was already a mess with the liquidity crisis but this could be a complete collapse. If that happens then really anything could happen. It’s just bloody awful.

Handsomedan

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#3300212 23-Oct-2024 09:38

It's really quite incredible what the hostilities in the Middle East have done - not only to the people but the landscape.

Beiruit in the 1950's/1960's:
This Is What Beirut Was Like Before The War

Palestine:

Others as listed:
Mohammed Hersi : Mr Optimist on X: "Before & After Iraq. Libya. Yemen & Syria . Well you don't expect to live in peace when you help destroy thriving nations . https://t.co/w7f7rHVsiJ" /

And of course Gaza is flattened completely in parts.

Photos show scale of the destruction of Israel air attacks on Gaza | Israel-Palestine conflict News | Al Jazeera

Irrespective of ideology, many people seem to lose sight of the fact that most of these places had (at one point) people simply getting on with their relatively mundane, happy and contented lives.
These are people's homes and workplaces and recreation areas and family gathering spots.

Sure - some places are/were more "free" than others to live, but that doesn't take away the fact that these were people's lives and homes and families and friends.

It's heartbreaking, no matter the side of the fence on which you camp.

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#3300491 23-Oct-2024 13:55

These are pictures of the result of Iran ideology. (you could blame America for installing this regime?)

did you show pictures of the Sunni Arab influence?

things really don't need to be like the top pics. it's not Israel's choice. they are responding to attacks into their land by Iran.

that's assuming one agrees the land belongs to them. obviously Iran doesn't agree.

freitasm

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#3300501 23-Oct-2024 14:28

Batman:

These are pictures of the result of Iran ideology. (you could blame America for installing this regime?)

What do you mean? The current extremist government is the result of a revolt against the American-backed Shah.

The Americans did not install this regime.

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