Israel and Middle East 2023

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#3317406 5-Dec-2024 22:49

Former UK Conservative Minister and active member of the Conservative Friends of Israel Alistair Burt says the UK should now recognize the State of Palestine to prevent the annexation of Gaza and further illegal settlement in the occupied West Bank:

Burt also says he now regrets not applying sanctions to the illegal settlements in the occupied territories and says sanctions should now be a priority to prevent illegal settlements. Burt says the Conservative Party government was under immense pressure and feared being called antisemitic and says that was wrong. It is surprising to hear this from a former Conservative Party minister. A party which had an active relationship with Israel's Likud party.

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#3317454 6-Dec-2024 09:40

gzt:

Former UK Conservative Minister and active member of the Conservative Friends of Israel Alistair Burt says the UK should now recognize the State of Palestine to prevent the annexation of Gaza and further illegal settlement in the occupied West Bank:

Burt also says he now regrets not applying sanctions to the illegal settlements in the occupied territories and says sanctions should now be a priority to prevent illegal settlements. Burt says the Conservative Party government was under immense pressure and feared being called antisemitic and says that was wrong. It is surprising to hear this from a former Conservative Party minister. A party which had an active relationship with Israel's Likud party.

This is the immediate catchcry whenever anyone calls Israel out on their crap.
It's so wrong and should never be something that is invoked - especially when there is clearly criticism of a nation, not a religious group (although sometimes it's hard to separate the two).

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#3317620 6-Dec-2024 16:10

Handsomedan: This is the immediate catchcry whenever anyone calls Israel out on their crap.
It's so wrong and should never be something that is invoked - especially when there is clearly criticism of a nation, not a religious group (although sometimes it's hard to separate the two).

I also suspect that at least some families of people who survived genocide 80 years ago would be upset to see their suffering being used as a get-out-of-jail-free card for a new genocide.

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#3318275 9-Dec-2024 10:24

neb:

Handsomedan: This is the immediate catchcry whenever anyone calls Israel out on their crap.
It's so wrong and should never be something that is invoked - especially when there is clearly criticism of a nation, not a religious group (although sometimes it's hard to separate the two).

I also suspect that at least some families of people who survived genocide 80 years ago would be upset to see their suffering being used as a get-out-of-jail-free card for a new genocide.

100%. It trivialises what those families went through for freedom and the ability to express themselves openly.

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#3324379 25-Dec-2024 11:42

This video starts with statements and experience of American soldiers in the Vietnam Mai Lai massacre then moves to statements and experience of Israeli soldiers in Gaza made to Haaretz daily newspaper, Israel's oldest.

Netanyahu recently initiated a campaign to remove all possible sources of income from the Haaretz newspaper after it's publisher made ambiguous remarks at an academic symposium later rebutted by the editorial team. It is a good time to subscribe to Haaretz if you can.

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#3324434 25-Dec-2024 17:39

The US has done this as well in Afghanistan, a "military-aged male", meaning aged between 12 and 65 years of age, was automatically an enemy combatant. This means you can drone-strike any group of civilians because there'll always be at least one "enemy combatant" present.

Daynger

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#3324993 27-Dec-2024 12:03

That kind of thing tends to happen when one "army" doesnt wear a uniform and hides amongst civilians, which in itself constitutes war crimes.

Im not saying its right, but it doent happen for no reason.

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#3326909 1-Jan-2025 23:27

Following on from earlier comments, interesting opinion piece in the Guardian by the author of a book on antisemitism about the weaponisation of the term and its negative consequences.

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#3339872 6-Feb-2025 12:59

YouGov polling says many Democratic voters did not cast a vote or turn out for Harris because of Biden's position on this issue:

Dropsite: Now, a new survey conducted by YouGov suggests Biden’s support for Israel’s unrelenting assault on Gaza played a surprisingly large role in the choice of those previous Biden supporters not to vote. The top reason those non-voters cited, above the economy at 24 percent and immigration at 11 percent, was Gaza: a full 29 percent cited the ongoing onslaught as the top reason they didn’t cast a vote in 2024.

Harris' failure to communicate any kind of policy difference in this area was influential in her election loss. Harris' statement on this issue "Clearly, I am not Joe Biden" communicated almost nothing to voters. An American voter would have to be a long way inside the beltway to detect any difference in Harris in this area, if there was one.

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#3339889 6-Feb-2025 13:43

Trump has achieved what Biden refused to apply any leverage to:

-There is a ceasefire

-Hostages are being returned

-The people of Gaza are not being bombed

-A number of severely injured and ill children are crossing through Rafah into Egypt for medical treatment

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#3339924 6-Feb-2025 16:47

gzt:

Trump has achieved what Biden refused to apply any leverage to:

-There is a ceasefire

-Hostages are being returned

-The people of Gaza are not being bombed

-A number of severely injured and ill children are crossing through Rafah into Egypt for medical treatment

Bit of a stretch to say that Trump 'achieved' them. The ceasefire talks didn't just start the day of his inauguration.

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#3339980 6-Feb-2025 18:08

SaltyNZ: Bit of a stretch to say that Trump 'achieved' them. The ceasefire talks didn't just start the day of his inauguration.

It's not much of a stretch to say Trump achieved those things. Biden had tried and failed to bring those negotiations to a conclusion for a long time. Nothing changed on Netanyahu's side. Biden failed to exert any significant pressure. The negotiated ceasefire was signed five days before the start of Trump's term. It would have been impossible to achieve without the support and influence of the incoming president. After Trump's official inauguration on January 20th - the ceasefire very nearly fell apart on January 25th. The issues were repaired under Trump's administration and the ceasefire is holding.

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#3339992 6-Feb-2025 19:17

gzt:

Trump has achieved what Biden refused to apply any leverage to:

-There is a ceasefire

-Hostages are being returned

-The people of Gaza are not being bombed

-A number of severely injured and ill children are crossing through Rafah into Egypt for medical treatment

Once Palestinians, an indigenous people, are removed so the US owned state, and its Riveria is developed, these points you raised will still hold. Working so far for Putin, also admired by Trump, so why not??

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#3339995 6-Feb-2025 19:21

gzt:

SaltyNZ: Bit of a stretch to say that Trump 'achieved' them. The ceasefire talks didn't just start the day of his inauguration.

It's not much of a stretch to say Trump achieved those things. Biden had tried and failed to bring those negotiations to a conclusion for a long time. Nothing changed on Netanyahu's side. Biden failed to exert any significant pressure. The negotiated ceasefire was signed five days before the start of Trump's term. It would have been impossible to achieve without the support and influence of the incoming president. After Trump's official inauguration on January 20th - the ceasefire very nearly fell apart on January 25th. The issues were repaired under Trump's administration and the ceasefire is holding.

Agree. The difference is negotiation under a deeply complicated situation, and mates looking after mates. The latter might generally be a good thing, but not always. Now that this "achievement" has occurred, the indigenous population are apparently set to be shuffled out as the new US owned territory gets into hotel and Riveria construction.

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#3340009 6-Feb-2025 20:37

tdgeek: Once Palestinians, an indigenous people, are removed so the US owned state, and its Riveria is developed,

Removal of the population is very unlikely in practice at this point. All the countries in the region are opposed, and the rest of the world is for that matter.

Israel is likely to have an opportunity for historic regional recognition peace and normalization, with numerous regional countries led by Saudi Arabia, on the condition Israel recognizes the Palestinian state and expands the rights of Palestinians.

That won't be easy. Trump could well win the Nobel Peace Prize if things go that way.

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