Israel and Middle East 2023

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~HONYAKKER!~
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#3147509 14-Oct-2023 16:23

Given the current events, I'm taking another listen to Darryl Cooper's 'Martyrmade' podcast called 'Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem'.

It's engrossing, and at around 20 hours, not just a superficial introduction. I can't recommend it enough. The first 5 minutes are just... harrowing.

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SaltyNZ

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#3147512 14-Oct-2023 16:31

MikeB4:

Somewhat off topic but I can remember reading Revelations as a kid and it scaring the pants off me.

It's a fun game to read through it and guess what 21st Century weapons correspond to all the Things.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

gzt

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#3147681 15-Oct-2023 11:20

Two million people without water, no food supply, no medical supplies, no electricity. Without basic sanitation it won't be long before cholera becomes a problem.

SJB

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#3147701 15-Oct-2023 12:21

If enough Palestinians leave Gaza City and move south to refugee camps the Israelis will flatten Gaza City and leave nothing for the Palestinians to come back to.

It would be a win-win for the Israelis - Hamas gone and civilian Palestinians crammed into an even more intolerable situation.

Rikkitic

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#3147717 15-Oct-2023 13:15

SJB:

If enough Palestinians leave Gaza City and move south to refugee camps the Israelis will flatten Gaza City and leave nothing for the Palestinians to come back to.

It would be a win-win for the Israelis - Hamas gone and civilian Palestinians crammed into an even more intolerable situation.

I'm not a big fan of Israeli policy but it is pretty insensitive to describe the current situation as a 'win-win' if you see some of the horrors perpetuated by Hamas there. A LOT of completely innocent Israeli men, women and children were indiscriminately slaughtered as Hamas swept through. Seeing the pain of the survivors, there is no win-win to this at all.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

freitasm

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#3147718 15-Oct-2023 13:21

A lot means more than 1,300 people in one go.

Unacceptable.

SJB

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#3147729 15-Oct-2023 14:58

Rikkitic:

SJB:

If enough Palestinians leave Gaza City and move south to refugee camps the Israelis will flatten Gaza City and leave nothing for the Palestinians to come back to.

It would be a win-win for the Israelis - Hamas gone and civilian Palestinians crammed into an even more intolerable situation.

I'm not a big fan of Israeli policy but it is pretty insensitive to describe the current situation as a 'win-win' if you see some of the horrors perpetuated by Hamas there. A LOT of completely innocent Israeli men, women and children were indiscriminately slaughtered as Hamas swept through. Seeing the pain of the survivors, there is no win-win to this at all.

I think of Hammas the same way I thought of ISIS - subhuman.

What I should have said is that it would be a win-win for the zealots in the Israeli cabinet who would like to see every Palestinian gone from Palestine.

kingdragonfly

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#3147761 15-Oct-2023 18:24

Trading on misery and bloodshed. There's a lot of these stories this week.

Forbes: Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman stocks notch best days in years amid Israel-Hamas conflict

Defense stocks surged while the broader market dipped Monday as Wall Street sifted through the market fallout of the conflict between Israel and Hamas, which escalated this weekend by the latter’s historic attack.

Major U.S. indexes declined early Monday, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average, S&P 500 and tech-heavy Nasdaq each down slightly before setlling into solid gains for the day.

Sevens Report analyst Tom Essaye attributed this early slump to “rising geopolitical tensions,” pointing to how the related surge in crude oil prices may impact inflation and thus could keep monetary policy tighter.

Energy stocks gained alongside oil prices—Exxon, Chevron and Occidental Petroleum rallied 3% or more Monday—but it was defense stocks that were the biggest immediate market winners amid Monday’s broader downturn.

The iShares U.S. Aerospace & Defense ETF rose more than 4%, buoyed by major spikes from Lockheed Martin (up 9%), Northrop Grumman (up 11%) and Raytheon (up 5%).

Meanwhile, airline stocks were among the hardest-hit as concerns mounted about air travel to Israel; shares of American, Delta and United airlines each fell more than 4%.
...

freitasm

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#3147935 16-Oct-2023 07:20

‘I hope it can endure’: examples of Jewish-Arab solidarity offer hope in Israel | Israel | The Guardian

About 20% of Israel’s 10 million-strong population identifies as Arab, including the Muslim, Christian and Bedouin communities, and they face systemic discrimination. And last Saturday, when Hamas attacked, the militants showed no mercy towards fellow Muslims and Arabs – some of the first deaths reported were four people killed by a rocket fired from the strip that hit a Bedouin village in the Negev desert, unrecognised by the Israeli government and therefore without an air raid system or bomb shelters. Palestinian citizens of Israel responding to the ground offensive, including paramedics, were also killed in the onslaught.

The Negev’s Bedouin tribes were some of the first to organise volunteer teams, made up of 600 people, to search for missing Israelis. “We saw that there was enormous chaos and realised we must do something,” Sleman Shlebe, from the village of Bir Hadaj, told Haaretz.

“We heard about people missing from both the Arab and Jewish communities, and knew that thanks to our exceptional familiarity with the south we could help ... We divided ourselves up in the cars so that there would be people responsible for different things: gathering information, rescuing and administering first aid.”

In Jaffa, a mixed city south of Tel Aviv, activist WhatsApp groups mobilised by nightfall on 7 October to organise a joint Arab-Jewish civil guard, unarmed, that can protect local people of all backgrounds and alert police if violence breaks out. They now number more than 1,000 people. Eritrean asylum seekers in Tel Aviv, often unwelcome in the rest of Israeli society, have been cooking meals for the thousands of displaced people.

Alon-Lee Green, another founder of Standing Together, which has been active since 2017, said the group’s 5,000-strong membership was still bracing for potential unrest. Last Wednesday, at a hospital in Tel HaShomer, dozens of members of La Familia, an ultras group supporting Beitar Jerusalem Football Club, flooded the building after hearing that injured members of Hamas were being treated there. They overwhelmed the security staff and chants of “death to terrorists” quickly became “death to Arabs”, terrifying the hospital’s medics, nearly half of whom are Arab, before police arrived and made three arrests.

“There are crazy religious people who actively want to open new fronts in these dangerous times. They are trying to inflame the entire region,” he said. “But what we see at Standing Together are Arabs opening up their homes to people who are displaced, sending food parcels and toys, and working hard to clamp down on incitement online and trying to create a calmer environment.”

gzt

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#3148027 16-Oct-2023 10:39

Incident overnight at Auckland museum after Israeli flag display

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300989808/auckland-museum-lights-blacked-out-by-palestinian-supporters

Imo Gaza did not vote for the alleged atrocities of Hamas and the civilians of Gaza deserve some solidarity for the suffering and deaths as a result of this action and not to be forgotten. Both flags should have been displayed consistent with New Zealand's support of two states.

kingdragonfly

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#3148049 16-Oct-2023 11:33

gzt: Incident overnight at Auckland museum after Israeli flag display

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300989808/auckland-museum-lights-blacked-out-by-palestinian-supporters

In the strictest sense the pro-Palestinian protest, it is an "incident".

However given many alternate forms of protest, I would actively encourage this. Many, many protest groups could do well emulating this.

It was non-destructive, lasted just a few hours, didn't obstruct public access or roads, and only inconvenienced the police briefly.

I can't find the video but it reminds me of the protest at a Chinese embassy using a light projector to shine pro-Taiwan messages on the embassy from a public street.

freitasm

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#3148585 17-Oct-2023 22:09

Hamas not making friends.

'I don't eat or sleep' says husband of new mother missing after Hamas attacks - BBC News

British teen missing in Hamas attack confirmed dead, family say - BBC News

MikeB4

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#3148689 18-Oct-2023 09:51

There needs to be an immediate cease fire to allow humanitarian efforts of food, medical, water and the evacuation of civilians without being bombed.

kingdragonfly

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#3148697 18-Oct-2023 10:19

Haaretz: Israel's newspaper of record

About Haaretz bias: Haaretz is a news media source with an AllSides Media Bias Rating ofCenter.

"Center doesn't mean better! A Center media bias rating does not necessarily mean a source is totally unbiased, neutral, perfectly reasonable, or credible, just as Left and Right don't necessarily mean extreme, wrong, unreasonable, or not credible. AllSides encourages people to read outlets across the political spectrum."

Haaretz.com: Shock at attack, fury at failure: how Netanyahu’s approval ratings have hit rock bottom in Israel

New polls show Israelis believe the Hamas attack exposed a domestic 'leadership debacle'; two-thirds prefer literally anyone but Netanyahu to be Israel’s next prime minister.

But, like their government, Israelis' vision for post-war Gaza are hazy
...

Handle9

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#3148945 18-Oct-2023 18:44

MikeB4:

There needs to be an immediate cease fire to allow humanitarian efforts of food, medical, water and the evacuation of civilians without being bombed.

Evacuate to where? Israel won't take them, Egypt won't take them. Gaza is still blockaded and that won't change.

A fair chunk wouldn't leave anyway as they are justfiiably concerned about never being able to return.

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