Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3223131 26-Apr-2024 17:59

deepred:

Or to compress it further: Kainga Ora & IRRS.

Sure, just put taxes up a LOT for everyone. That will only drive educated and skilled people to Australia...but who cares right ?

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deepred

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#3223132 26-Apr-2024 18:02

sir1963:

deepred:

Or to compress it further: Kainga Ora & IRRS.

Sure, just put taxes up a LOT for everyone. That will only drive educated and skilled people to Australia...but who cares right ?

Taxes need not have to go up, instead redirecting the corporate welfare known as the Accommodation Supplement would be a very good start. The Austrian capital Vienna is just one model to look at.

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

sir1963

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#3223133 26-Apr-2024 18:05

deepred:

Taxes need not have to go up, instead redirecting the corporate welfare known as the Accommodation Supplement would be a very good start.

Wrong, you will just end up with more homeless.

You keep thinking there is a free lunch here somewhere, there isn't.

We could of course take everyones kiwi saver contributions and use them to buy houses to give to other people...

gzt

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#3223134 26-Apr-2024 18:11

deepred: Anyone got ideas on how to short the NZ housing market?

You'll need to find a way to invest in the ever increasing homelessness associated with this continuing issue. Maximization of rational market opportunities. That's the spirit!

deepred

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#3223135 26-Apr-2024 18:21

gzt:
deepred: Anyone got ideas on how to short the NZ housing market?

You'll need to find a way to invest in the ever increasing homelessness associated with this continuing issue. Maximization of rational market opportunities. That's the spirit!

Bernard Hickey said it best not too long ago: "NZ's economy is a housing market with bits tacked on."

HelloThere

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#3223136 26-Apr-2024 18:22

freitasm: Oh, what a surprise. National doesn't care about health or education. It's all about tax cuts for friends, road projects for friends and oil exploration. For friends.

The rich don't get rich by giving away money to the poor. I would rather give back my tax cut so kids can get an education and people get their surgery's they need. Departments need to start saying no to cutting staff and keep running the hospitals. Surly the tax payers health should come before cutting back expensives.

deepred

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#3223139 26-Apr-2024 18:36

sir1963:

deepred:0

Taxes need not have to go up, instead redirecting the corporate welfare known as the Accommodation Supplement would be a very good start.

Wrong, you will just end up with more homeless.

You keep thinking there is a free lunch here somewhere, there isn't.

We could of course take everyones kiwi saver contributions and use them to buy houses to give to other people...

That is, if the Accommodation Supplement is scrapped cold turkey in a week. It would need an orderly transition, starting with a sinking lid policy on the AS, then putting the freed up funds to HNZ/KO and community housing providers qualifying for the IRRS.

I make no apology whatsoever for sounding like a "housing socialist", and can safely say the housing-as-commodity status quo is a stagflationary millstone on the economy. Private developers can still focus on the high-end with McMansions, luxury apartments & hotels.

Rich or poor, just about every nation that's fixed their housing issues has recognised the role of public housing, even pro-business Singapore. The urban unitary plan relaxing zoning rules in Auckland has helped somewhat, and if Minister Bishop can put country over party, Wellington will follow suit. Hopefully it's the last gasp of the fsck-off-we're-full, oops, NIMBY brigade.

Further reading: FT 2023/03/17 - The Anglosphere needs to learn to love apartment living

sir1963

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#3223147 26-Apr-2024 18:47

deepred:

That is, if the Accommodation Supplement is scrapped cold turkey in a week. It would need an orderly transition, starting with a sinking lid policy on the AS, then putting the freed up funds to HNZ/KO and community housing providers qualifying for the IRRS.

I make no apology whatsoever for sounding like a "housing socialist", and can safely say the housing-as-commodity status quo is a stagflationary millstone on the economy. Private developers can still focus on the high-end with McMansions, luxury apartments & hotels.

Rich or poor, just about every nation that's fixed their housing issues has recognised the role of public housing, even pro-business Singapore. The urban unitary plan relaxing zoning rules in Auckland has helped somewhat, and if Minister Bishop can put country over party, Wellington will follow suit. Hopefully it's the last gasp of the fsck-off-we're-full, oops, NIMBY brigade.

Further reading: FT 2023/03/17 - The Anglosphere needs to learn to love apartment living

Climate change is real. We are going to need to find a massive sum on money to mitigate much of it, ie shift whole communities and rebuild infrastructure. It is also going o impact our agriculture in 2 ways

loss of productivity
loss of markets as other nations take food miles , pollution, etc into account

Then we have the issue of a lot of tropical diseases coming to NZ, mostly in the top 1/2 of the North Island

It has been predicted that by 2050 economies will shrink by 10% in the USA to 22% in some asian countries, NZ is NOT going to be immune, especially as all of technology is imported .

ALL of this is going to need "buy in" by the private sector because the government will not have the money, especially if that money is wrapped up in zero return housing with a huge bureaucracy to govern it. The tax payer will also be able for any climate change related issues adding more debt to the tax payer.

sir1963

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#3223150 26-Apr-2024 18:52

deepred:

[

That is, if the Accommodation Supplement is scrapped cold turkey in a week. It would need an orderly transition, starting with a sinking lid policy on the AS, then putting the freed up funds to HNZ/KO and community housing providers qualifying for the IRRS.

I make no apology whatsoever for sounding like a "housing socialist", and can safely say the housing-as-commodity status quo is a stagflationary millstone on the economy. Private developers can still focus on the high-end with McMansions, luxury apartments & hotels.

Rich or poor, just about every nation that's fixed their housing issues has recognised the role of public housing, even pro-business Singapore. The urban unitary plan relaxing zoning rules in Auckland has helped somewhat, and if Minister Bishop can put country over party, Wellington will follow suit. Hopefully it's the last gasp of the fsck-off-we're-full, oops, NIMBY brigade.

Further reading: FT 2023/03/17 - The Anglosphere needs to learn to love apartment living

The top exports of Singapore are Integrated Circuits ($81.9B), Refined Petroleum ($62.9B), Machinery Having Individual Functions ($15.4B), Gold ($13.1B), and Gas Turbines ($8.48B), exporting mostly to Hong Kong ($51.6B), China ($51.2B), Malaysia ($35.9B), United States ($28.9B), and Indonesia ($22.5B).

The top exports of New Zealand are Concentrated Milk ($6.99B), Sheep and Goat Meat ($2.79B), Butter ($2.78B), Frozen Bovine Meat ($2.71B), and Rough Wood ($2.3B), exporting mostly to China($13.1B), Australia ($5.35B), United States ($5.07B), Japan ($2.75B), and South Korea ($1.69B).

Notice the difference, we are exporting crude goods with low added value.

tdgeek

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#3223153 26-Apr-2024 18:59

ezbee:

Luxon cuts starting to bite?

We need to fund tax cuts. Where low income singles get a crumb. Medium/above average singles get three crumbs. Those higher earners get crumbs at their level. Those with kids, yes they benefit. Good. Now, if these tax cuts were really really good, then maybe we can wear the fallout, but they are rubbish. High cost low benefit. But a superb vote winner... /s

tdgeek

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#3223154 26-Apr-2024 19:02

HelloThere:
freitasm: Oh, what a surprise. National doesn't care about health or education. It's all about tax cuts for friends, road projects for friends and oil exploration. For friends.

The rich don't get rich by giving away money to the poor. I would rather give back my tax cut so kids can get an education and people get their surgery's they need. Departments need to start saying no to cutting staff and keep running the hospitals. Surly the tax payers health should come before cutting back expensives.

But how to do buy votes? .../s

deepred

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#3223155 26-Apr-2024 19:04

sir1963:

deepred:

[

That is, if the Accommodation Supplement is scrapped cold turkey in a week. It would need an orderly transition, starting with a sinking lid policy on the AS, then putting the freed up funds to HNZ/KO and community housing providers qualifying for the IRRS.

I make no apology whatsoever for sounding like a "housing socialist", and can safely say the housing-as-commodity status quo is a stagflationary millstone on the economy. Private developers can still focus on the high-end with McMansions, luxury apartments & hotels.

Rich or poor, just about every nation that's fixed their housing issues has recognised the role of public housing, even pro-business Singapore. The urban unitary plan relaxing zoning rules in Auckland has helped somewhat, and if Minister Bishop can put country over party, Wellington will follow suit. Hopefully it's the last gasp of the fsck-off-we're-full, oops, NIMBY brigade.

Further reading: FT 2023/03/17 - The Anglosphere needs to learn to love apartment living

The top exports of Singapore are Integrated Circuits ($81.9B), Refined Petroleum ($62.9B), Machinery Having Individual Functions ($15.4B), Gold ($13.1B), and Gas Turbines ($8.48B), exporting mostly to Hong Kong ($51.6B), China ($51.2B), Malaysia ($35.9B), United States ($28.9B), and Indonesia ($22.5B).

The top exports of New Zealand are Concentrated Milk ($6.99B), Sheep and Goat Meat ($2.79B), Butter ($2.78B), Frozen Bovine Meat ($2.71B), and Rough Wood ($2.3B), exporting mostly to China($13.1B), Australia ($5.35B), United States ($5.07B), Japan ($2.75B), and South Korea ($1.69B).

Notice the difference, we are exporting crude goods with low added value.

And with the current lot in the Beehive largely focused on the "dumb economy", the long-standing structural issues will likely persist. A housing-first approach to homelessness and economic diversification/value-adding go hand in hand.

gzt

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#3223156 26-Apr-2024 19:12

deepred: I make no apology whatsoever for sounding like a "housing socialist",

You don't have to apologise ; ). The total accommodation supplement spend today is around NZ$2 Billion. Your proposal is to (eventually) redirect 100% to build at Auckland prices 2000-4000 houses per year. It is inadequate. Realistically there are two ways to get it done:

- KiwiSaver or

Just borrow the money for public housing (shock horror) and for $deity-of-compassion's sake stop people being thrown on to the street. NZ housing market is built on immigration and there is no shortage of people wanting to come here for the foreseeable future to get away from the rest of it. Economy will remain healthy and high end market will remain healthy over that time.

tdgeek

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#3223157 26-Apr-2024 19:13

sir1963:

deepred:

[

That is, if the Accommodation Supplement is scrapped cold turkey in a week. It would need an orderly transition, starting with a sinking lid policy on the AS, then putting the freed up funds to HNZ/KO and community housing providers qualifying for the IRRS.

I make no apology whatsoever for sounding like a "housing socialist", and can safely say the housing-as-commodity status quo is a stagflationary millstone on the economy. Private developers can still focus on the high-end with McMansions, luxury apartments & hotels.

Rich or poor, just about every nation that's fixed their housing issues has recognised the role of public housing, even pro-business Singapore. The urban unitary plan relaxing zoning rules in Auckland has helped somewhat, and if Minister Bishop can put country over party, Wellington will follow suit. Hopefully it's the last gasp of the fsck-off-we're-full, oops, NIMBY brigade.

Further reading: FT 2023/03/17 - The Anglosphere needs to learn to love apartment living

The top exports of Singapore are Integrated Circuits ($81.9B), Refined Petroleum ($62.9B), Machinery Having Individual Functions ($15.4B), Gold ($13.1B), and Gas Turbines ($8.48B), exporting mostly to Hong Kong ($51.6B), China ($51.2B), Malaysia ($35.9B), United States ($28.9B), and Indonesia ($22.5B).

The top exports of New Zealand are Concentrated Milk ($6.99B), Sheep and Goat Meat ($2.79B), Butter ($2.78B), Frozen Bovine Meat ($2.71B), and Rough Wood ($2.3B), exporting mostly to China($13.1B), Australia ($5.35B), United States ($5.07B), Japan ($2.75B), and South Korea ($1.69B).

Notice the difference, we are exporting crude goods with low added value.

Mutton, lambs, wool, beef were big, not any more.

Failed to adapt.

deepred

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#3223159 26-Apr-2024 19:16

gzt:
deepred: I make no apology whatsoever for sounding like a "housing socialist",

You don't have to apologise ; ). The total accommodation supplement spend today is around NZ$2 Billion. Your proposal is to (eventually) redirect 100% to build at Auckland prices 2000-4000 houses per year. It is inadequate. Realistically there are two ways to get it done:

- KiwiSaver or

Just borrow the money for public housing (shock horror) and for $deity-of-compassion's sake stop people being thrown on to the street. NZ housing market is built on immigration and there is no shortage of people wanting to come here for the foreseeable future to get away from the rest of it. Economy will remain healthy and high end market will remain healthy over that time.

Or if there's a way to mass-produce medium to high-density modular housing with new technologies such as 3D printing. And last I checked, land accounts for about half the price of a new dwelling (I saw a chart somewhere on the Web but still looking for it). Also, not everyone wants to live in a high-maintenance McMansion, but they yield the highest returns for developers.

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