Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3251985 22-Jun-2024 18:11

sir1963:

The Hikurangi fault when that goes will make the Tech look like a mild shake. Then of course there are the volcanoes, tropical storms....

Perhaps AKL is the centre of the universe /s

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michaelmurfy

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#3252064 23-Jun-2024 11:50

WTF:

Following the Aratere grounding, Transport Minister Simeon Brown said the government had "ensured funding is available to purchase new ships".

It came after the National-led government in December withdrew funding for two new ferries and infrastructure after the cost blew out from $1b to about $3b.

Willis on Sunday said the Government had $7.5b unallocated in the multi-year capital allowance.

"That means we can draw down on that funding to purchase ferries," she said. "Obviously the ferries will cost a lot less than that. Cabinet is yet to make decisions about how we procure new ferries.

"We received recommendations from our ministerial advisory group last week and are now considering those.

https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350320191/kiwirail-chair-early-retirement-unrelated-aratere-grounding

Could have potentially saved money there if they didn’t cancel the ferries…

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GV27

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#3252102 23-Jun-2024 14:44

michaelmurfy:

https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350320191/kiwirail-chair-early-retirement-unrelated-aratere-grounding

Could have potentially saved money there if they didn’t cancel the ferries…

Where does it suggest there the cost is going to be more than the iRex project was going to come in at?

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#3252109 23-Jun-2024 15:08

I think we will have to wait and see. The ferry costs didn't rise, as the builder would still honour the original quote. It's the infrastructure that went up in cost.

If National comes up with a plan (which now will include new boats at updated costs) and it costs more than $3 billion, then we will know they made us pay more and waste time
If National comes up with a plan (which now will include new boats at updated costs) and it costs less than $3 billion, then we will know they made it good.

GV27

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#3252110 23-Jun-2024 15:20

Given the cost went up from $2.6b when the incoming ministers were briefed to $3b before the end of the same month, you can probably have expected the cost to increase well-beyond that.

Incidentally this was in-line with what Grant Robertson had indicated when Labour signed off on the extra funding to keep the project moving and possibly likely he would have been making the same decision; but by that stage the costs had already escalated massively and they had received continual, albeit increasingly reluctant approval.

Given the 4% cuts he'd already made to the public sector (plus likely additional ones to continue short-term commitments not budgeted for in future periods), it's probably likely he'd eventually say 'enough is enough' as well.

freitasm

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#3252114 23-Jun-2024 15:45

GV27:

Given the cost went up from $2.6b when the incoming ministers were briefed to $3b before the end of the same month, you can probably have expected the cost to increase well-beyond that.

In other words, the cost would go up regardless of which government is there. Are you implying we should be prepared for a massive cost for a National plan too?

Handle9

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#3252116 23-Jun-2024 15:52

freitasm:

GV27:

Given the cost went up from $2.6b when the incoming ministers were briefed to $3b before the end of the same month, you can probably have expected the cost to increase well-beyond that.

In other words, the cost would go up regardless of which government is there. Are you implying we should be prepared for a massive cost for a National plan too?

It's likely the ferries won't be the same as the iRex ferries. They will more likely be a more like for like replacement rather than being 40m longer and requiring such significant infrastructure investment.

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#3252118 23-Jun-2024 16:06

The infrastructure investment was also futureproofing the wharf along with seismic work… That’s the point people are missing.

Handle9

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#3252119 23-Jun-2024 16:09

michaelmurfy:

The infrastructure investment was also futureproofing the wharf along with seismic work… That’s the point people are missing.

Nah the point that most people have missed was made by Grant Robertson last year in a letter to Kiwirail. Kiwirail are incompetent.

We note that KiwiRail under-scoped the landside infrastructure in 2021 meaning the decision to procure two large rail-enabled ships at that time was premature. To date, we are yet to see a satisfactory explanation for why this was the case

GV27

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#3252134 23-Jun-2024 16:54

freitasm:

In other words, the cost would go up regardless of which government is there. Are you implying we should be prepared for a massive cost for a National plan too?

No, just some perspective around what Robertson would have done when Kiwirail bought him two further cost increases within the space of a month of a project he'd already given them a warning about cost escalations over, and already indicated the government would not be funding the full extent of the blowout to date.

There is every chance we'd all be having the same conversations we are now.

quickymart

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#3252248 23-Jun-2024 19:31

freitasm:

I think we will have to wait and see. The ferry costs didn't rise, as the builder would still honour the original quote. It's the infrastructure that went up in cost.

If National comes up with a plan (which now will include new boats at updated costs) and it costs more than $3 billion, then we will know they made us pay more and waste time
If National comes up with a plan (which now will include new boats at updated costs) and it costs less than $3 billion, then we will know they made it good.

Maybe smaller ferries are the solution? Note that none of the ones suggested have rail capability, though:

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/06/23/govt-advised-to-replace-cook-strait-ferries-with-new-smaller-boats/

ezbee

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#3252333 24-Jun-2024 09:42

You are planning for a growing economy, a growing population, and growing tourism.
National talks a lot about growth faster under its care.

So you want to choose smaller ferries?

Lets see whats 'Good enough for Stralia'.

Existing Tasmanian ferries are a bit larger than our largest presently.
New Tasmania IV and V under construction will be more than 1/3 larger again.

This is a ferry choice that will serve or haunt us for decades.
Maybe Australia has the right attitude to think of the future for an essential service.

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#3252335 24-Jun-2024 09:44

ezbee:

Maybe Australia has the right attitude to think of the future for an essential service.

There's a first time for everything I guess

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GV27

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#3252341 24-Jun-2024 10:23

Amazing how the ferry project is both super-critical and so important we accept any blow-out at any cost, but not so important that you get the actual process right in the first place.

sir1963

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#3252378 24-Jun-2024 11:21

GV27:

Amazing how the ferry project is both super-critical and so important we accept any blow-out at any cost, but not so important that you get the actual process right in the first place.

That is because the people who know the least always have the most say.
There is that assumption that because you are higher up the food chain than someone else, you know more than they do.
I see this every day.

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