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elpenguino
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  #3165936 29-Nov-2023 19:38
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sir1963:

 

Oh ?

 

Why ?
Why would someone who has options chose to do business with a country who wants to punish them financially ?

 

Seen Venezuela lately, should be incredibly wealthy, its a basket case because on political policies, and that meant investment disappeared 

 

I have friends and family who are now Australian citizens because the choice was far better for them and their families.

 

You want to tax them heavily, they will simply go elsewhere.

 

 

The rate of tax has very little to do with how successful and happy a country is.

 

Look at the Scandinavian countries. Compared to NZ they pay high tax but last time I looked they have stellar rates of pretty much everything.

 

 





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tdgeek
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  #3165948 29-Nov-2023 19:57
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sir1963: Christopher Luxon refuses to pull Winston Peters into line over anti-media comments, laughs it off

 

 

 

ROTFLMAO, Luxon has demoted himself to deputy prime minister, he has let Winston take charge.

 

As I said earlier, Luxon wanted to be prime minister (ego)  but did not want to BE prime minister (actual job, the hard bit)

 

 

I watched a bit of todays 100 day announcement. I posted here pr there a while back that a CEO as PM would be great, Im wrong. Maybe Im not wrong but Luxon is the outlier? He is arrogant. Asked questions doesnt answer uses campaign slogans instead. What did you think and Peters comments? I didnt see them. When he was reminded of them, I wouldn't say it like that, and he ended up saying it was acceptable. But I wouldn't say it like that. Every other sentence Labour is horrible, useless and other adjectives. Perhaps they are? But perhaps National avoided being sunk into the Covid cesspit, and all Govts that were are gone, as people not happy. Doesnt mean the measures were useless and horrible. The situation with Covid was useless and horrible. I can see the blame going going on its already happening. Labour left us with snakes and snails in the books. No. PREFU is open to all. Pre election. HYFU soon is post election. As GR stated, Nicola hasn't done her work, PREFU wasnt 18 months ago

 

Winston. Wow he has lost it. He is angry, or maybe he likes to be aggressive as he is King(maker) (He isnt) Luxon tries to wipe that away. Seymour is super silent he sees the writing on the wall. 

 

The avoidance of Luxon in the campaign was legendary. Once they are in Govt I excepted it all to go quiet, no one can seek accountability until things go wrong or dont happen. But every day there are issues, smarmy comments by Luxon or Nicola. Angry outbursts by Peters. It is s shambles

 

Going back to my comment that a CEO would be great, imagine if Greg Foran was PM. CEO, tick. Been at Walmart forever, tick. Employee focussed, tick, and dare I say it a n Air New Zealand CEO, ironic. And he os calm, measured and a voice, as was John Key and Jacinda Ardern. But with valid business experience which also involved employees. I cannot remember the name but a US CEO once a week rolled his sleeves up and wandered about the factory to keep in touch with the employees. Motivational. But Luxon is empty


tdgeek
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  #3165954 29-Nov-2023 20:07
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elpenguino:

 

 

 

The rate of tax has very little to do with how successful and happy a country is.

 

Look at the Scandinavian countries. Compared to NZ they pay high tax but last time I looked they have stellar rates of pretty much everything.

 

 

 

 

100%. Say I can work at a job that pays less, a neighbourhood that is less fancy, but the company looks after me its great, or the neighbourhood community vibe is great. I know what I would choose.

 

Take NZ as an example. Weather ok but not like Fiji. 1/4 acre sections. CBD generally isn't far away. ChCh for me, beach is 30 minutes, skifields 1.5 hours max, a lot is very near. No cyclones, very very few real wildfires, if any, it doesnt get to -20 in Winter or 43 in Summer, and no missiles are aimed at us. We dont aggravate the Global Powers, so we keep things cool-ish. Oh, and no earthquakes at all (in the last 35 minutes :-)   )

 

Scandinavia, they have fairly open prison plans and less crime, but ACT wants to build a bunch more. One example. 




sir1963
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  #3165986 29-Nov-2023 20:29
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SaltyNZ:

 

sir1963:

 

I have friends and family who are now Australian citizens because the choice was far better for them and their families.

 

 

 

 

As long as we're doing anecdata, I'm Australian and moved here over 20 years ago. I have no intention of going back. What's stopping you, if it's so much better over there?

 

 

 

 

Elderly relatives.

 

I am assuming that will also accept far more kiwis live in Oz than Ozzies live in NZ....and even take up citizenship.
But before covid we were looking at buying an apartment in Surfers as a family holiday place and using it as a air BnB at other times.


GV27
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  #3166017 29-Nov-2023 20:54
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elpenguino:

 

The rate of tax has very little to do with how successful and happy a country is.

 

Look at the Scandinavian countries. Compared to NZ they pay high tax but last time I looked they have stellar rates of pretty much everything.

 

 

If we could pay Scandinavian taxes and get Scandinvian services then I'd be happy as a clam. 

 

However the idea we should get some degree of outcomes for additional spending seems to be a toxic idea to some.


tdgeek
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  #3166020 29-Nov-2023 21:00
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GV27:

 

If we could pay Scandinavian taxes and get Scandinvian services then I'd be happy as a clam. 

 

However the idea we should get some degree of outcomes for additional spending seems to be a toxic idea to some.

 

 

It can happen if any PM  has the appetite, been many decades so far, nothing. But Kiwis wont vote for that, even if the awesome outcomes were set in stone

 

Many of us seem focussed on our back pocket today rather than future outcomes. Probably not a Kiwi thing, a human thing. 


sir1963
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  #3166032 29-Nov-2023 21:21
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GV27:

 

elpenguino:

 

The rate of tax has very little to do with how successful and happy a country is.

 

Look at the Scandinavian countries. Compared to NZ they pay high tax but last time I looked they have stellar rates of pretty much everything.

 

 

If we could pay Scandinavian taxes and get Scandinvian services then I'd be happy as a clam. 

 

However the idea we should get some degree of outcomes for additional spending seems to be a toxic idea to some.

 

 

 

 

The wife needs a knee replacement. We could keep trying the health system and have her tortured for a lot more years, or bite the bullet and pay for it ourselves privately. So I am all for improved services with higher taxes which is why I have ALWAYS argued against tax reductions, my piddling little share does nothing for me, but millions of them can achieve a lot.




quickymart
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  #3166038 29-Nov-2023 21:28
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/watch-live-christopher-luxon-faces-pressure-to-rein-in-winston-peters-as-he-fronts-first-post-cabinet-press-conference/KEQJSEU7YVDUBJDUEBZX6INU4Y/

 

Mentioned above, more from the Herald on this. Of course Luxon says nothing's wrong and he fully agrees with Winston - but he has to say that, as he probably doesn't want the latter turning on him.

 

Re the election result.

 

My personal thoughts, I don't know why, but since Luxon was sworn in I just feel so endlessly critical of him. Yes, I'm a left-wing voter, so I'm not exactly going to be the president of his fan club - but I don't remember being anywhere near as critical of John Key when he was the PM. Sure I thought Key was a bit of a dick, and like most National politicians they were just looking after all their mates in big business and to hell with everyone else (although there were a few things that his government did do right, ie, the nationwide broadband rollout) - but with Luxon, I dunno...I just feel like he can't do anything right, at all, and I can't put my finger on why I feel this way, especially since he's barely even started in the role πŸ˜•

 

Winston I'm (unfortunately) starting to absolutely hate, as for Seymour I'm not a huge fan of his either but at least he looks like he has half a clue.


tdgeek
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  #3166045 29-Nov-2023 21:40
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quickymart:

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/watch-live-christopher-luxon-faces-pressure-to-rein-in-winston-peters-as-he-fronts-first-post-cabinet-press-conference/KEQJSEU7YVDUBJDUEBZX6INU4Y/

 

Mentioned above, more from the Herald on this. Of course Luxon says nothing's wrong and he fully agrees with Winston - but he has to say that, as he probably doesn't want the latter turning on him.

 

Re the election result.

 

My personal thoughts, I don't know why, but since Luxon was sworn in I just feel so endlessly critical of him. Yes, I'm a left-wing voter, so I'm not exactly going to be the president of his fan club - but I don't remember being anywhere near as critical of John Key when he was the PM. Sure I thought Key was a bit of a dick, and like most National politicians they were just looking after all their mates in big business and to hell with everyone else (although there were a few things that his government did do right, ie, the nationwide broadband rollout) - but with Luxon, I dunno...I just feel like he can't do anything right, at all, and I can't put my finger on why I feel this way, especially since he's barely even started in the role πŸ˜•

 

Winston I'm (unfortunately) starting to absolutely hate, as for Seymour I'm critical of him too but at least he looks like he has half a clue.

 

 

The UFB rollout was made possible by the tech companies, the Govt just helped, away from the tech stuff. It was a global rollout we did what others did with the Tech.

 

Policy wise, i have no comment, its unfair to go after anyone until they have proven or disproven themselves. Unlike one poster here in 2017 the day after. Labour hasn't built 48.6 Kiwibuild houses yet. Pathetic. So this year let them/him go forth. But the antics, weakness, inability to answer without dipping into campaign cliches is painful. As you say, its DAYS into it. Each day there is something new.

 

Its glaringly obvious that Dave is keeping his slate clean, he can see the backwash from Luxon, Willis and Peters. Stable and Strong Government?  Dave is 


Handle9
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  #3166048 29-Nov-2023 21:43
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quickymart:

 

Of course Luxon says nothing's wrong and he fully agrees with Winston - but he has to say that, as he probably doesn't want the latter turning on him.

 

 

You can paraphrase his words as you chooose but if you are making the claim he fully agrees with Winston please supply the quote where he says that.


quickymart
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  #3166050 29-Nov-2023 21:48
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On Peters’ comments about the Public Interest Journalism Fund and false claims media had been bribed, Luxon refused to condemn them. He said that he and National had not agreed with the fund either.

 

He said Peters’ comments were “not the way I would have expressed it” but that he was “frustrated” by the fund as well.

 

True, he's not exactly saying "I fully 100% agree with him" but it's not exactly like he's saying "what he's said isn't correct" either though.


tdgeek
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  #3166053 29-Nov-2023 21:56
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Handle9:

 

 

 

You can paraphrase his words as you chooose but if you are making the claim he fully agrees with Winston please supply the quote where he says that.

 

 

He didn't agree with Winston, although he said it was acceptable. By minimising it, he's giving Winston a free pass. To what is bully behaviour. He no doubt will have words with Winston behind closed doors but I imagine that will be pretty weak, as Luxon is weak, Peters is strong, emotionally and him and Dave hold the cards. Its a 3 way partnership and any 2 wont work. Peters can be and has been a statesman, he knows when to hold them and when to fold them. Minister of Foreign Affairs can be a delicate task. He is far from that now. 


SaltyNZ
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  #3166095 30-Nov-2023 07:04
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quickymart:

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/watch-live-christopher-luxon-faces-pressure-to-rein-in-winston-peters-as-he-fronts-first-post-cabinet-press-conference/KEQJSEU7YVDUBJDUEBZX6INU4Y/

 

Mentioned above, more from the Herald on this. Of course Luxon says nothing's wrong and he fully agrees with Winston - but he has to say that, as he probably doesn't want the latter turning on him.

 

Re the election result.

 

My personal thoughts, I don't know why, but since Luxon was sworn in I just feel so endlessly critical of him. Yes, I'm a left-wing voter, so I'm not exactly going to be the president of his fan club - but I don't remember being anywhere near as critical of John Key when he was the PM. Sure I thought Key was a bit of a dick, and like most National politicians they were just looking after all their mates in big business and to hell with everyone else (although there were a few things that his government did do right, ie, the nationwide broadband rollout) - but with Luxon, I dunno...I just feel like he can't do anything right, at all, and I can't put my finger on why I feel this way, especially since he's barely even started in the role πŸ˜•

 

Winston I'm (unfortunately) starting to absolutely hate, as for Seymour I'm not a huge fan of his either but at least he looks like he has half a clue.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I didn't really like Key, but his government kicked off some good things, and he had some very capable Ministers (sadly, the two I'm thinking of, Amy Adams and Nikki Kaye, also retired). The Key government managed the GFC pretty well, although of course it wasn't as bad here as it was other places. Hec, I actually voted Act once under Hide because I believed - and still do - that the Auckland Supercity was good policy.





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quickymart
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  #3166106 30-Nov-2023 08:01
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It's early days yet but I personally don't think things are off to a great start, especially with Winston around: 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301017579/tova-podcast-winston-peters-making-it-look-like-chris-luxon-has-lost-control

 

On reflection I think I'd probably be a bit less critical if Winston wasn't in the mix.


ockel
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  #3166122 30-Nov-2023 08:25
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tdgeek:

 

I can see the blame going going on its already happening. Labour left us with snakes and snails in the books. No. PREFU is open to all. Pre election. HYFU soon is post election. As GR stated, Nicola hasn't done her work, PREFU wasnt 18 months ago

 

 

 

 

Im not sure you understand the difference between seeing financial statements of an entity (which all outsiders including the Opposition see) and undertaking due diligence as an insider.  The rolling up within business units and categories can be very different to the activities that are being undertaken in those business units.  Only insiders get a real understanding of whats been going on.  [Supie is a great recent example - a potential investor undertakes to invest subject to undertaking due diligence, but finding that financial statements arent regularly prepared and seeing the month to month financials decides its not investable and walks away.  Information from outside vs inside]

 

The PREFU statements, like the Govts monthly financial statements, dont give anywhere near the detail of whats happening in a $140bn behemoth that employs 63,000 people.





Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination" 


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