Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3319061 11-Dec-2024 09:13

freitasm:

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How dare landlords actually turn out to the polls. It’s outrageous that those who participate in a democracy get some benefit from their participation.

This is right. I disagree with some of your points of view but this is the case, always. If people don't vote and complain about the results... You get what you (didn't) vote for.

Personally, I agree with the law as it stands - i.e. that landlords should continue get more votes if they have properties in multiple areas. But it is also simultaneously true that it goes against ACT's headline 'one man, one vote, one law for all at any cost' policy.

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#3319065 11-Dec-2024 09:17

freitasm:
Handle9:

How dare landlords actually turn out to the polls. It’s outrageous that those who participate in a democracy get some benefit from their participation.

This is right. I disagree with some of your points of view but this is the case, always. If people don't vote and complain about the results... You get what you (didn't) vote for.

If you only disagree with some of my points of view that puts you firmly in the minority.

FWIW I didn’t vote last time for a couple of reasons. One was I found none of the parties worthy of my vote. They were all a bit (or a lot) shit. The other was I’m overseas and it didn’t really feel right to vote after not living in the country for 5 years. It’s up to you lot how you want it to be.

Handle9

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#3319068 11-Dec-2024 09:19

SaltyNZ:
Personally, I agree with the law as it stands - i.e. that landlords should continue get more votes if they have properties in multiple areas. But it is also simultaneously true that it goes against ACT's headline 'one man, one vote, one law for all at any cost' policy.

You missed the fine print - it one man, one vote for people who don’t vote for us. If you vote for us you can have lots. It’s definitely got nothing to do with opportunistic race baiting.

ezbee

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#3319346 11-Dec-2024 19:21

Nicola Willis delivers a concept of a plan and declares job done.
In future she shall be called 'starlord'.

Ferry plan reveal: 'I've delivered' Finance Minister Nicola Willis declares, though details are scarce
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/536369/ferry-plan-reveal-i-ve-delivered-finance-minister-nicola-willis-declares-though-details-are-scarce

""
It is still not clear, however, what the cost of the ferries will be, who will build them, or whether they will be rail-enabled.

But Finance Minister Nicola Willis is notching it up as a big success.

"I've delivered. I've discharged my duty to the New Zealand people," she said. "You were landed with an absolute dog of a project and a new government is going to clean it up."
""
Willis insisted rail freight would still be transported from one island to the next, but had not made any commitments around how the new ferries would be equipped to do that.
""

SaltyNZ

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#3319350 11-Dec-2024 19:50

Yep, we're going to pay nearly twice as much for smaller boats that may or may not be rail capable. Terminal infrastructure still has to be upgraded, we're on the hook for as-yet-unknown number of hundreds of millions of dollars to the Korean shipyard which was already working on the boats they cancelled, and the new boats won't be ready till at least 2029, three years later than the original ones. Winston has been named Minister for Rail and Simeon Brown 'welcomes' the decision. Unclear whether that's a welcome through gritted teeth because Winston's muscling in on his territory or whether he's genuinely happy to not have to give a f*** about something that isn't a road anymore.

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#3319352 11-Dec-2024 19:57

SaltyNZ:

Yep, we're going to pay nearly twice as much for smaller boats that may or may not be rail capable. Terminal infrastructure still has to be upgraded, we're on the hook for as-yet-unknown number of hundreds of millions of dollars to the Korean shipyard which was already working on the boats they cancelled, and the new boats won't be ready till at least 2029, three years later than the original ones. Winston has been named Minister for Rail and Simeon Brown 'welcomes' the decision. Unclear whether that's a welcome through gritted teeth because Winston's muscling in on his territory or whether he's genuinely happy to not have to give a f*** about something that isn't a road anymore.

The Aristocrats!

Cherry picking the ferry cost in isolation is dumb. What is relevant is the total project cost relative to the project benefits, whether the project has been competently scoped and will be run properly. That was the problem with the iRex project, none of those things were done. A business case that was pitched as NPV positive was a load of crap.

According to Grant Robertsons correspondence with Kiwirail, the iRex ferries were prematurely ordered and Kiwirail couldn't give a good reason for why that happened. The project was never actually funded but Kiwirail went YOLO and caused this mess.

“We note that KiwiRail under-scoped the landside infrastructure in 2021 meaning the decision to procure two large rail-enabled ships at that time was premature. To date, we are yet to see a satisfactory explanation for why this was the case,” Robertson said.

“It took some time to receive adequate information to enable a full review to be undertaken. While we appreciate you working with officials on this, we are disappointed at how challenging this process has been.

“We were surprised that the terms of delivery in the vessel purchase contract were renegotiated at a time when the future funding of this project was under active consideration by the Government.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kiwirail-mega-ferries-what-labour-finance-minister-grant-robertson-knew-about-financial-troubles

elpenguino

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#3319403 11-Dec-2024 20:56

ezbee:

Nicola Willis delivers a concept of a plan and declares job done.
In future she shall be called 'starlord'.

Ferry plan reveal: 'I've delivered' Finance Minister Nicola Willis declares, though details are scarce
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/536369/ferry-plan-reveal-i-ve-delivered-finance-minister-nicola-willis-declares-though-details-are-scarce

""
It is still not clear, however, what the cost of the ferries will be, who will build them, or whether they will be rail-enabled.

But Finance Minister Nicola Willis is notching it up as a big success.

"I've delivered. I've discharged my duty to the New Zealand people," she said. "You were landed with an absolute dog of a project and a new government is going to clean it up."
""
Willis insisted rail freight would still be transported from one island to the next, but had not made any commitments around how the new ferries would be equipped to do that.
""

If the details are left out, one has to speculate they're not favourable for National.

Or haven't been sorted out yet, in which case half a thing has been delivered.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#3319416 11-Dec-2024 21:24

Handle9:

Cherry picking the ferry cost in isolation is dumb. What is relevant is the total project cost relative to the project benefits, whether the project has been competently scoped and will be run properly.

That's why I also mentioned that ferry terminal infrastructure still has to be upgraded, and we are on the hook for break costs on the original contract. Regardless of whether you think the original project was being well run, by pulling out of it in a knee-jerk response to look tough instead of following through (or at least checking it before deciding to pull out) has simply put us in a position where a ton of money is going to be literally thrown away, and the rest will get us less benefit for probably more money once everything is taken into account. And since we know look like feckless idiots, the next ship building contractor is going to have an even tighter contract than before. They won't want to risk the next government doing the same thing a second time: we'll be paying full price for the new boats no matter whether we ultimately want them or not.

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#3319419 11-Dec-2024 21:35

SaltyNZ:
Handle9:

Cherry picking the ferry cost in isolation is dumb. What is relevant is the total project cost relative to the project benefits, whether the project has been competently scoped and will be run properly.

That's why I also mentioned that ferry terminal infrastructure still has to be upgraded, and we are on the hook for break costs on the original contract. Regardless of whether you think the original project was being well run, by pulling out of it in a knee-jerk response to look tough instead of following through (or at least checking it before deciding to pull out) has simply put us in a position where a ton of money is going to be literally thrown away, and the rest will get us less benefit for probably more money once everything is taken into account. And since we know look like feckless idiots, the next ship building contractor is going to have an even tighter contract than before. They won't want to risk the next government doing the same thing a second time: we'll be paying full price for the new boats no matter whether we ultimately want them or not.

Kiwirail are feckless idiots. That’s really not news.

The boat builders didn’t do them any favours. They made the best commercial deal they could based on the conditions at the time. Cancelling the ferries is permissible under the contract and there are implications to that. There’s no indication that the government has been trying to avoid their contractual obligations so there’s no real reason to think there would be much of a difference at all in contracting.

This is big boy contracting and no one is doing anyone any favours. My project management trainer had a nice way to put it-“I’m not trying to take your children, I’m just following the contract we both agreed to.”

SaltyNZ

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#3319420 11-Dec-2024 21:36

Handle9:

Kiwirail are feckless idiots.

Well, I can't argue with that! 😅

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ezbee

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#3319502 12-Dec-2024 10:59

Considering how well the two private owners did in running down railways.
Contrast between their vision and reality. Maybe its just hard work, made harder by lack of investment.

Private enterprise is no panacea, has its fair share of waste, and needs its cut for its shareholders, and 'sometimes' fat corporate HQ.
Seen this with local companies absorbed by a global and suddenly balance sheet positives erased by management and corporate fees that strangle.

Of course in process you may get stuck with historic agreements that are advantageous to your trucking competitor that used to own you.
That competitor part of the process in delay of planning and infrastructure development.

The lack of ability to fund long term plans.

Like the lurch from project to project with new green teams in constructing any infrastructure as gaps between projects are so big.
Pointed out by manager of the Auckland city rail link.

So you get an approval to rectify a decades old problem, but a very short timeline to build a 'new' team.
You have to rush this whole process as the funding to do so may change or run dry any time.

Now trucking companies might be waking up that KiwiRails problems might not be such a win for them.

Mainfreight calls progress on ferries 'frustratingly slow'.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018968066/mainfreight-calls-progress-on-ferries-frustratingly-slow

Because Winston Peters calls something a mess does not make it so, mostly the reverse.

Shipbuilders will likely be very cautious given our propensity to pull out of contracts, or entangle them in mid project changes, and inflation is real.

GV27

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#3319553 12-Dec-2024 13:22

Handle9:

Cherry picking the ferry cost in isolation is dumb. What is relevant is the total project cost relative to the project benefits, whether the project has been competently scoped and will be run properly. That was the problem with the iRex project, none of those things were done. A business case that was pitched as NPV positive was a load of crap.

According to Grant Robertsons correspondence with Kiwirail, the iRex ferries were prematurely ordered and Kiwirail couldn't give a good reason for why that happened. The project was never actually funded but Kiwirail went YOLO and caused this mess.

If Robertson was true to his word that he gave on the $2.6b cost escalation then a similarly drastic response would have been warranted when he was then told in November about yet another $400m that was the final nail in the coffin - the $400m that popped up between Willis being briefed as incoming minister and then an additional update within the same month.

I have a pretty middling opinion on Robertson's effeciacy as a Finance Minister but his objections to both the quality of the analysis behind the decision to go with the rail ferries and the ongoing cost escalations are well-documented and amounted to a 'final warning' already.

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#3319573 12-Dec-2024 14:57

ACC Levies to be increased.... "Everyone who works or owns a business in New Zealand pays levies, which cover injuries."

"The 5% increase for three years on the Earners’ and Work levy meant a worker earning $70,000 a year will see an increase of $42 worth of deductions in the 2025 to 2026 financial year, which was 80 cents a week, and an increase of $140 in three years’ time from this year’s levy rate which was $973."

So... how about some additional levies for the people who create greater risks for the rest of us.

ACC levy for drunk and disorderly, instant "Fine" of $100+

ACC levy on ALL traffic fines (including parking, expired WOF/Registration) (boy racers make it $1000+)

ACC levy on car/motorbike/bike/etc tyres

ACC levy on escooters , the lack on helmets is astounding

ACC levy on fireworks + fire levy + "insurance" to cover damage

ACC levy on councils etc for road potholes

SaltyNZ

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#3319579 12-Dec-2024 15:08

sir1963:

ACC Levies to be increased.... "Everyone who works or owns a business in New Zealand pays levies, which cover injuries."

ACC levies on Ministers for causing so many cardiovascular and neurological conditions

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#3319659 12-Dec-2024 16:23

sir1963:

ACC levy on councils etc for road potholes

To pay for the double whammy of fillings jarred loose, and for the migraines incurred from dealing with mechanics endlessly replacing buggered suspension.

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