Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3335815 25-Jan-2025 19:11

tdgeek:

Easing taxes should not be a political issue. Individuals as we all are here need to manage income and expenditure. Government is no different. If Government cannot provide what we expect them to provide, they either reduce costs or they raise income. Being a very TEENY nation, we dont have a lot of room to move. Riase taxes = bad. Lower costs = bad. Perhaps each Government Ministry hires a private CEO to manage each Ministry like a business?

Easing taxes is always a political issue. Always, everywhere, no matter what kind of government runs the place. New Zealand isn't somehow special.

We absolutely do not want to run ministries like a business. While we can all agree we don't want our tax money wasted, government services are not meant to make a profit. They are meant to provide a public good.

Businesses are designed to make a profit. And monopoly businesses - which is what a business-run Ministry would be - enshittify. Businesses which provide services you need in order to stay alive even more so. The US has profit-making health care. They spend vastly more per-capita on health care than we do for a far, far worse outcome. The housing crisis - landlords flipping houses to one another at ever increasing prices. Food - the supermarket duopoly screwing both farmers and consumers. In the UK - they privatised water. It's a shitshow. In Texas, the privately run electricity grid is a shitshow.

I welcome Luxon's laser focus on increased competition but the fact they seem to be so concerned about the company that owns all the shops at the airports suggests they may be less interested in the likes of you and me than I might hope.

The second last thing we need is government services run like a business. The last thing we need is selling government services to a business.

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#3335817 25-Jan-2025 19:12

sir1963:

GV27:

sir1963:

Due to this governments agenda , we are at record levels of people leaving NZ, these are NOT the unwashed masses, these are skilled/qualified people and their families that ultimately NZ needs for a successful economy .

We can not get ahead by selling meat and wool while importing all of our technological needs.

We aren't getting that from governments led by either main party.

Certainly not helped by people pretending that returning the public service headcount to where it was in 2023 is somehow 'slash and burn' and other various screaming about austerity.

You might not have wanted your tax cuts, but I'm glad we live in a country that has accepted it's immoral to leave tax rates where they are for decades at a time so that you can get away with taxing inflation, instead of having a mature conversation about actually raising taxes.

Locally now, after hours emergency doctors fees will be as high as $195 for 14-17 year olds , but they are not totally heartless, you can make an instalment plan, though some practices are demanding payment up front.

Perhaps what is needed is a register, so that those who take the tax cuts are automatically put at the bottom of the list for all government funded services.

Part of the "inflation" is access to new, expensive medications, access to new diagnostic tools. It covers things like increased costs for exchange rates, shipping, technical support. We also have a population who objects to people living longer but demand to be able to retire at the same age.

We happily accepted fibre internet , it cost, perhaps you were happy with dial-up ?

Next up will be the cost of climate change. Having to shift whole towns & infrastructure, cope with new pest species and diseases, increase in weather related event costs and frequency , loss of productive land.

I can tell you now the opposition for large tax increases will be huge.

The only viable option will be to privatise a lot of government services, such as health, kill of the pension, put in infrastructure taxes, etc.

I have no issue with tax changes. The Govt is not a business, well it probably is, the difference is that the "profits" go back to the citizens.

If NZ was awash with funds, taxes MUST reduce, obvious. If we are in the red with funds, either the taxes increase to equalise that, i.e. match income with expenditure, or we decrease expenditure. Which will often if not always means more costs to the citizens, as in an indirect tax. The issue in NZ politics is that tax changes, i.e reductions, are vote catchers not sound economic decisions. If the public want tax cuts and are fine with reduced services or increased costs for some services, across the board, I'm good with that

tdgeek

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#3335818 25-Jan-2025 19:25

SaltyNZ:

We absolutely do not want to run ministries like a business.

I think you missed my point. When ever a Govt is involved in running anything, the commentary here and elsewhere is that they cannot. Due to Ministers who have no skills in that sphere, and that many of the subordinates are career Govt employees will do no more than to meet the budget they are allocated. Efficiency isnt a need.

My point was get a "proper" CEO who runs a Ministry like a business. While the traditional "business" is there to make a profit, an acceptable or better ROI, the same applies to a Ministry. Except that the "profit" is moved to lower prices to the consumer, i.e. us.

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#3335820 25-Jan-2025 19:50

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360558814/kiwis-need-get-over-ourselves-and-identify-doc-land-can-be-used-mining-shane-jones-says

Thought this was a Trump post, but it wasnt... Drill drill, drill

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#3335822 25-Jan-2025 19:53

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360559649/nrl-boss-wants-us-president-donald-trump-las-vegas-warriors-season-opener

Seems the alt-hard right rocks now...

sir1963

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#3335827 25-Jan-2025 20:00

SaltyNZ:

GV27:

instead of having a mature conversation about actually raising taxes.

I must have missed the mature conversation the Luxon government wanted to have about raising taxes. I mean, they put RUCs on EVs, but that wasn't really them - it was always coming, they merely didn't stop it. Other than that, they gave us a $20 a fortnight tax cut, gave even more tax cuts to landlords, and the PM has made several hundred thousand in tax free profits selling at least 2 houses because there is no CGT.

What conversation about raising taxes have we had?

EDIT - I accidentally a word

There is no CGT on anything else. Now if you want to add it onto everything, then I support that 100%, this includes your private house, your business, and any other assets you may have.

If home owners can not claim for depreciation, why can businesses, after all they pay no CGT, deduct all the expenses , and businesses even claim back GST for things they consume....even on the assets they buy, like a new car.

Also if you want the government to take on debt and put the $600 BILLION + worth of rental houses into government ownership, then I am 100% with you on that too.

And of course this should all be payable every time the GVs are redone at minimum, but better if it is done annually so that no one benefits from having their assets capital gains tax free for 4 years.

I would hope that you do not intend to carve out exceptions for various groups which just happens to include you.

Landlords also did NOT get a tax cut, they just had the same rules as every other business apply to them , just as they had done for many decades.

Now if you want to pivot to accommodations supplement , we must at once remove it for people in their own homes. Then of course not every tenant receives the accommodation supplement
The actual cost to the government to own all rentals and have income related rents is far far higher than the accommodation supplement costs, so taxes would need to be increased for everyone who is not in a subsidised home, private or not.

One of the great things about our GST system is the lack of exemptions, it it easier and cheaper to run. If you want to have a system of exemptions for CGT then the administrative costs will substantially increase too, and then all sorts of "loop holes" will appear and others will be unfairly punished. Just go look at the mess the US tax system is for people and how big the loop holes are for multinationals.

If tax systems are to be based on who you like, dont like, that will eventually get applied to people too.

You will get religious groups complaining that they are being taxed to pay for gender affirming care. How about Atheists asking why religion is exempt taxes, and a lot of "Charities" like Sanitarium are tax free even while the compete financially with other tax paying businesses.

Then we have the situation where if one person loses a leg to an accident they get payments, but a person who loses the leg to cancer does not. I have had friends who lost their partner to cancer at age 40 then are forced to sell the family home because a single income was not enough to meet the mortgages and other costs.

Do you feel that you want a massive tax hike to get rid of all of these injustices, just because you do not like small landlords. The big landlords who are debt free are not impacted one way or the other by the loss of interest deductibility.

Mean time we have for a large number of years given a $500 payment into peoples KiwiSaver if they just put aside about $1000 a year themselves, and I believe kiwi saver pays no CGT either, just taxes on the profits.

sir1963

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#3335830 25-Jan-2025 20:05

SaltyNZ:

[Businesses are designed to make a profit. And monopoly businesses - which is what a business-run Ministry would be - enshittify. Businesses which provide services you need in order to stay alive even more so. The US has profit-making health care. They spend vastly more per-capita on health care than we do for a far, far worse outcome. The housing crisis - landlords flipping houses to one another at ever increasing prices. Food - the supermarket duopoly screwing both farmers and consumers. In the UK - they privatised water. It's a shitshow. In Texas, the privately run electricity grid is a shitshow.

Landlords do not flip houses, property developers do, and they have a heap more tax deductions than landlords do.

Hatch

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GV27

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#3336248 27-Jan-2025 13:32

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/watch-live-government-to-make-economic-growth-announcement/I74IK6PF5RGJTIZHS77UWE7J5U/

I don't agree with this. In fact I'm struggling to think of anything remotely positive about this at all.

freitasm

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#3336250 27-Jan-2025 13:39

I think it could be a good move to generate revenue for local businesses. I'd like to see it limited though:

visitors should be required to have health insurance - we wouldn't want people coming to New Zealand to work for a US-based company just to try and take advantage of free healthcare not available in their country.
visitors should be required to have third-party automobile insurance if they buy a car.
visa should be limited to under one year and couldn't be extended.

SaltyNZ

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#3336507 28-Jan-2025 08:39

freitasm:

I think it could be a good move to generate revenue for local businesses. I'd like to see it limited though:

visitors should be required to have health insurance - we wouldn't want people coming to New Zealand to work for a US-based company just to try and take advantage of free healthcare not available in their country.
visitors should be required to have third-party automobile insurance if they buy a car.
visa should be limited to under one year and couldn't be extended.

Yep, all of those things, and they should still need to pay any additional fees on accommodation etc. charged to visitors towards local infrastructure costs. I think it could be quite a good thing if done correctly.

As to 3rd party insurance, I think that should just be mandatory for everyone not just international visitors.

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sir1963

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#3336566 28-Jan-2025 12:09

SaltyNZ:

Yep, all of those things, and they should still need to pay any additional fees on accommodation etc. charged to visitors towards local infrastructure costs. I think it could be quite a good thing if done correctly.

As to 3rd party insurance, I think that should just be mandatory for everyone not just international visitors.

Perhaps there should be an ACC surcharge applied to all traffic fines, bill the people creating the most risk.

And no racking up fines, 3rd time the car gets taken off you and sold to pay off fines and enforcement.

Oh and get back to instant fines for drunk and disorderly

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#3336571 28-Jan-2025 12:23

sir1963:

Perhaps there should be an ACC surcharge applied to all traffic fines, bill the people creating the most risk.

And no racking up fines, 3rd time the car gets taken off you and sold to pay off fines and enforcement.

Oh and get back to instant fines for drunk and disorderly

Definitely merit to all these suggestions although care must be taken not to cause too many unintended consequences e.g. my car was confiscated and sold, now I can't get to work so I got fired and I can't feed my family etc. Sure, I could just not drive like a jackass, but effectively punishing my innocent family for my behaviour is not really what society wants.

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ezbee

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#3336581 28-Jan-2025 13:00

I think for accidents as we have ACC we pick up the full bill anyway.
So if they don't pay tax or substantially into ACC , its a subsidy. Hopefully they don't have expensive to treat accidents.

We just have to watch unintended consequences.

Much like very annoying and noisy visitors we had from UK pre covid that left a trail of woe behind them.

Johnny Somali may be very interested in these developments, just has to clear a small issue in South Korea. :-)
He may have a lot of 'friends' on kick looking for new place to nomad to as well.

Like tourists the example is always promoted as the rich free spending driving our economy, not the roadside pooper in the the dilapidated car. Its not considered that even the hard workers may be very constrained spending to build up their savings for further travels and future.

Hopefully we can frame this in a way that we get more of the positives.

sir1963

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#3336724 28-Jan-2025 18:59

SaltyNZ:

Definitely merit to all these suggestions although care must be taken not to cause too many unintended consequences e.g. my car was confiscated and sold, now I can't get to work so I got fired and I can't feed my family etc. Sure, I could just not drive like a jackass, but effectively punishing my innocent family for my behaviour is not really what society wants.

We pick up the costs of their actions.

Who deserves the benefit of the doubt, the innocent or the transgressor ?

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#3336725 28-Jan-2025 19:06

SaltyNZ: As to 3rd party insurance, I think that should just be mandatory for everyone not just international visitors.

Compulsory insurance for everyone tends to raise the cost of insurance for everyone and it lowers the quality of the insurance service. It's just not worth it. It's a net loss.

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