Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

1 | ... | 91 | 92 | 93 | 94 | 95 | 96 | 97 | 98 | 99 | 100 | 101 | ... | 184

8170 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3215674 8-Apr-2024 13:25

I think a lot of people are missing the point that just because a job is a "back office" job, and not a front line job, then it is somehow unnecessary. If the extra 2500 people are all fired, the jobs they were doing still need to get done. But if the 2500 back office people aren't doing them, then guess who will be?

Maybe adding 2500 public service jobs didn't make things "better". But it's also very possible that it stopped them getting worse. I guess we'll find out now.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

ockel

2031 posts

Uber Geek

#3215679 8-Apr-2024 13:43

SaltyNZ:

I think a lot of people are missing the point that just because a job is a "back office" job, and not a front line job, then it is somehow unnecessary. If the extra 2500 people are all fired, the jobs they were doing still need to get done. But if the 2500 back office people aren't doing them, then guess who will be?

Maybe adding 2500 public service jobs didn't make things "better". But it's also very possible that it stopped them getting worse. I guess we'll find out now.

One could easily argue that the more than 20,000 public sector jobs added in the last 6.5 years havent made things get better. It, by all accounts, hasnt stopped them getting worse. To not understand that is missing the point. Its lacking any insight, which is a key driver for the previous Government losing its office, a complete lack of insight.

Adding all those people hasnt achieved anything other than ensuring a job for life, remunerated on tenure rather than performance.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

SaltyNZ

8170 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3215680 8-Apr-2024 13:52

ockel:

Its lacking any insight, which is a key driver for the previous Government losing its office, a complete lack of insight.

I genuinely hope you are correct.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Handle9

11276 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3215682 8-Apr-2024 13:59

Rikkitic:

SaltyNZ:

I assume you mean, where are the right/conservative leaning critics? Because as far as the left leaners go, this government is just one horrific decision after another. I mean, I read an interview this morning where even Matthew Hooton was on the record saying Luxon made a grievous error agreeing to Act's Treaty Principles Bill. You know things are off the wall when Hooton starts sounding like a thoughtful moderate.

What I mean is where are all the loudmouths who had so much to complain about when the last government was in power? I could mention some specific names but will refrain from doing so.

They’ve been replaced by different loudmouths nitpicking every possible decision. The names are different, the invective is the same.

GV27

5885 posts

Uber Geek

#3215693 8-Apr-2024 15:02

Rikkitic:

What I mean is where are all the loudmouths who had so much to complain about when the last government was in power? I could mention some specific names but will refrain from doing so.

People tend to have little to say when their favourite team is under the pump and and lots to say when someone they don't like makes a mistake.

To an extent, pretty normal I think when it comes to politics. It's not like this thread was heaving with objective scrutiny when prior government ministers were under the gun or there were balls being dropped. There are however a lot of people with axes to grind who are more vocal and I suggest that doesn't change, only the people holding the axes (depending on who the government actually is).

I'm just flat-out busy at this time of year and the government is proving to be so unremarkable/uninspiring that I'm not inspired to make many remarks about them. When I have, they've usually been somewhat cynical. I expected better. I mean I didn't expect it but I would have liked to have been pleasantly surprised.

Kyanar

4089 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#3215694 8-Apr-2024 15:03

ockel:

Adding all those people hasnt achieved anything other than ensuring a job for life, remunerated on tenure rather than performance.

I see this viewpoint a lot, that public service jobs are just "jobs for life" and "remunerated on tenure". Having worked in the public service before, I'll tell you right now that it's a load of crap and exemplifies National's entire attitude towards any public servant who's not sitting in a customer facing position. The New Zealand public service is notorious for almost diametrically opposite staffing decisions depending on who's in power, and the majority of public servants are on independent employment agreements rather than collective agreements, meaning that remuneration is very much based on performance (or whim, really).

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#3216998 11-Apr-2024 10:35

Kyanar:

ockel:

Adding all those people hasnt achieved anything other than ensuring a job for life, remunerated on tenure rather than performance.

I see this viewpoint a lot, that public service jobs are just "jobs for life" and "remunerated on tenure". Having worked in the public service before, I'll tell you right now that it's a load of crap and exemplifies National's entire attitude towards any public servant who's not sitting in a customer facing position. The New Zealand public service is notorious for almost diametrically opposite staffing decisions depending on who's in power, and the majority of public servants are on independent employment agreements rather than collective agreements, meaning that remuneration is very much based on performance (or whim, really).

^^^^ This.

The enduring trope about folks that work very hard in often stressful and dangerous jobs is incredibly insulting. As a past government manager I can say that staff progression, remuneration and job tenure is base on performance.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79156 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#3217080 11-Apr-2024 13:35

This government is using words and signs that create divisions, using the conservative right-wing playbook from the US politics.

Tenancy rules changes to improve rental market | Beehive.govt.nz

The previous Government waged a war on landlords.

It's sad when a government put these kinds of words on paper, in a press release.

There wasn't and there isn't a "war" raging on.

Words like this do not explain the problem they are trying to solve and do not help solve the problem. It creates division - WE vs THEM - in the country's social relations.

It's unhealthy and appeals to the most basic instincts of fear and hate.

thinkingtrex8848

533 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3217154 11-Apr-2024 17:51

freitasm:

This government is using words and signs that create divisions, using the conservative right-wing playbook from the US politics.

Tenancy rules changes to improve rental market | Beehive.govt.nz

The previous Government waged a war on landlords.

It's sad when a government put these kinds of words on paper, in a press release.

There wasn't and there isn't a "war" raging on.

Words like this do not explain the problem they are trying to solve and do not help solve the problem. It creates division - WE vs THEM - in the country's social relations.

It's unhealthy and appeals to the most basic instincts of fear and hate.

So is "...taking lunch money from innocent kids to fund "tax cuts" to landlords"

Totally agree with you however.

SaltyNZ

8170 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3217159 11-Apr-2024 18:20

It's not just the innocent kids, it's the police as well.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

quickymart

13785 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#3217161 11-Apr-2024 18:23

freitasm:

This government is using words and signs that create divisions, using the conservative right-wing playbook from the US politics.

Tenancy rules changes to improve rental market | Beehive.govt.nz

The previous Government waged a war on landlords.

It's sad when a government put these kinds of words on paper, in a press release.

There wasn't and there isn't a "war" raging on.

Words like this do not explain the problem they are trying to solve and do not help solve the problem. It creates division - WE vs THEM - in the country's social relations.

It's unhealthy and appeals to the most basic instincts of fear and hate.

Agree with this sentiment. For my part, I'm getting sick of hearing how crap the last government was yet these clowns don't seem to be able to have a plan outside of "more roads, less public transport and tax cuts for the rich".

Can someone refresh my memory - in 2017 did Labour (ie, Ardern) bang on endlessly about how crap the previous National government had been under Key and English? Or maybe there was some criticism and I just didn't pay much attention to it.

Handle9

11276 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3217164 11-Apr-2024 18:28

quickymart:

Can someone refresh my memory - in 2017 did Labour (ie, Ardern) bang on endlessly about how crap the previous National government had been under Key and English? Or maybe there was some criticism and I just didn't pay much attention to it.

Yes and they were still doing it at the end of their term. SOP for all governments.

gzt

17003 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3217165 11-Apr-2024 18:30

quickymart: Can someone refresh my memory - in 2017 did Labour (ie, Ardern) bang on endlessly about how crap the previous National government had been under Key and English? Or maybe there was some criticism and I just didn't pay much attention to it.

Maybe not so extreme and so early but I do recall that approach a few times on the housing related issues.

Handle9

11276 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3217167 11-Apr-2024 18:35

gzt:
quickymart: Can someone refresh my memory - in 2017 did Labour (ie, Ardern) bang on endlessly about how crap the previous National government had been under Key and English? Or maybe there was some criticism and I just didn't pay much attention to it.

Maybe not so extreme and so early but I do recall that approach a few times on the housing related issues.

9 long years became such a running joke that Toby Manhore wrote a semi-satirical piece about it in late 2018

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/21-11-2018/announced-the-date-after-which-blaming-the-last-government-is-banned

SaltyNZ

8170 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3217178 11-Apr-2024 19:34

This should be right up National & Act's alley - Marama Davidson's member's Right To Repair bill has been drawn from the biscuit tin of democracy. Support small business (Nats), give people more choices (Act).

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

1 | ... | 91 | 92 | 93 | 94 | 95 | 96 | 97 | 98 | 99 | 100 | 101 | ... | 184